Charging concerns/questions with NMP Lithium Ion batteries

[Keith Black]

I have no inside knowledge to answer to your question, but I'll just venture a guess... Answer: R&D and QA budget. 

Companies who sell laptops, PDA's, cell phones, etc. are typically huge companies with enormous R&D departments. Their entire business is inventing new technologies. Part of their product requirements for mobile devices are power systems that will support the product x hours, weight less than y amount, etc. etc.... AND NOT CATCH ON FIRE! Sure, all companies will put out defective devices periodically, but they have an intensive development and Quality Assurance process that attempts to eliminate all problems, especially user injury. They also have warehouses of lawyers telling them they better not kill anyone!

Disclaimer: The following is a fictional account that I just made up out of thin air. (but I bet I'm pretty close)

The RC industry is much easier to break into for smaller players than the big industries listed above. Some of these players innovate with new ideas, designs, etc., but many are just savvy businessmen that see the opportunity to create a business by repackaging and reselling existing technology. I'm not knocking savvy businessmen that repackage and resell, many millionaires have been created from doing this in many many industries and it takes a special person to see the opportunity and execute an idea to make a business successful. I respect this ability.

However, in the case of the RC battery industry it's led to products being released that are unsafe due to virtually no R&D or QA process. Think about how we got here, there were numerous individuals that saw how ridiculously expensive NiCad and NiMH battery packs were and realized they could get raw cells for a fraction of the cost. Why not buy some, solder them together and make a business out of it? Numerous business minded hobbyist did and ended up creating companies that specialize in selling these packs, no harm done.

Selling NiCads and NiMH will generate a few extra bucks, but it's not exactly a home run. The big win in business is being an early adopter of new technology and becoming the leading name brand. Enter the new lithium technology. Some very savvy business guys clearly saw this new technology and figured they could build a business (or grow an existing business) by offering the new miracle battery, so they did just as the NiCad and NiMH guys did, gather information on the cells from the manufactures, do a little testing, solder cells together and sell them. The only problem is, these powerful cells also create powerful fires.

End of fictional account.

Today there are some RC battery manufactures that are offering circuitry to prevent overload induced fires, this is a great thing and hopefully will eventually make lithium batteries as safe for RC use as they are for the laptop I'm using to type this email. Others companies selling to the RC industry still have no safeguards. 

Are the safeguards used RC manufactures as thorough as those used by the main-stream industries? I don't know, but I wish I did.  Are their testing procedures as rigorous as the big companies? I don't know.  Is the budget for safety as extensive? Is the brain power working on safety in RC applications equivalent? 

These are all questions that I certainly can't answer, but for our sake I'd hope the answer to all will eventually be yes.

I'm sure I've pissed at least someone off with this email, that's not my intention. This is just my "wild" guess as to why we're where we are.

Keith Black

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Rcmaster199 at aol.com 
  To: discussion at nsrca.org 
  Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 9:37 PM
  Subject: Re: Charging concerns/questions with NMP Lithium Ion batteries


  I have tried to stay out of most of this discussion but something is gnawing at me. I have asked this question before, but don't believe I have gotten an answer. Maybe no one on the list knows 

  Since Li-ion and Li-poly technology is widely used in cameras and cell phones, and these are recharged all  the time (in the home and without special power supplies like separate 12 volt sources and such) with extremely safe circuitry, why is it that the folks who offer these same battery types to us, use charging circuitry that isn't so bullet proof???

  Certainly currents and voltages are different in some applications, but the chemistry is the same. And Lithium metal will burn with ferocious intensity whether 20 grams are exposed or 10 times that amount. The heat is enough to burn your plane or house either way.

  Matt K

    Subj:Re: Charging concerns/questions with NMP Lithium Ion batteries 
    Date:5/9/2004 12:33:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time
    From:kerlock at comcast.net
    Reply-to:discussion at nsrca.org
    To:discussion at nsrca.org
    Sent from the Internet 



    First off, I'm not looking for compassion. That was a simple explanation as
    to why a guy who is normally cheery, laughing and all smiles could go into a
    practically homicidal rage over a smart a* comment

    Secondly and most importantly, I'd like you to explain to me, with as much
    detail as you'd like, how my position is extreme in any way, shape or form.
    To me, an extreme position would be "ban lithium batteries". I have never
    said or proposed any such thing. I'd like to know how recommending caution
    and informing the uninformed could POSSIBLY be viewed as extreme. Or is
    anyone even bothering to read, or are they just glancing and knee jerking?

    And I don't need any type of apology, but thanks for the thought. I mean it.

    -Mike

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: "John Ferrell" <johnferrell at earthlink.net>
    To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
    Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2004 10:12 AM
    Subject: Re: Charging concerns/questions with NMP Lithium Ion batteries


    > We can always start over. I am sometimes guilty of "picking on" someone
    > because their reaction is extreme. I see now that I should investigate
    > conditions further to assure that what I intend as good natured joking is
    > not taken as insensitive and cruel. Fortunately, it was not I that was the
    > perpetrator this time, but it could have been.



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