F3A Definitions

[Dean Pappas]

Hi Earl,
Actually, as vague as the verbage sounds, I am pleased to see it. It's a step in the right direction, and my general principle when writing a rule is to NOT specify something that does not ncessarily need to be specified. Many style differences live in this space.
 
The rulebook need to center the maneuver on its defined center point, and the common sense desire to make both "ends" of the maneuver be the same distance from the box center dictate that the roll rates of a maneuver like the 4 of 8/slow roll opposite should have different rates. Would you prefere that the maneuver description specifies a matched total time for the point roll and continuos roll parts? When I mis-match my roll rates to do this maneuver, I can tell you that I will be trying to match the total time of the two halves, for pacing. (I am a slave to Waltz timing!)
 
In a maneuver like the square, it appeals to "common sense" even more that the 2 of 4 should take the same total time as the halves.  The point rolls will have much faster roll rates, except for the guy whose style is to barely hesitate on the point rolls.
 
As for coming up with a distinguishing definition for continuous versus point rolls, I have trouble too. Maybe we can rely on the maneuver name: if it isn't a point or snap, it's continuous. This raises a translation problem, for many, but that may not be such a big issue. Of course, when a maneuver is named, you had better say what you mean. Two halve rolls are different than a 2 of 2 if it relates to some other maneuver element. ( We're getting legalistic, and something in me is unhappy, even if I am satisfied with the logic) 
 
The lack of a proper centering criterion (like AMA) for the spin is a simple mistake. Let's fix it.
 
Thanks fore asking and I hope my input is helpful,
    Dean Pappas

-----Original Message-----
From: EHaury at aol.com [mailto:EHaury at aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:45 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: F3A Definitions


A couple of interesting points from the current F3A rules. In "Description of Manoeuvres" (5A.1.13) it states: "Where there is a combination of continuous rolls and point rolls within a manoeuvre, the roll rate for the point rolls does not necessarily have to be the same as the roll rate for the continuous rolls."
 
Seems straight forward for a maneuver like "4 of 8, slow roll opposite." But then, what's the definition of "continuous roll"? Is a half roll a continuous roll, or a point roll (as in 2 of 2 for example)? In the first case, in the sq. loop with 1/2 rolls & 2 of 4 rolls, each roll type could be different rates. In the second, they would seem to all need to be the same, or would they?
 
Also, there are several center maneuvers, (P-05.22, F-05..18 for example) where there is a half roll on the exit. The maneuver descriptions state: "Exit half roll is part of the manoeuvre."
This raises a center question, P-05.22 is the 2 turn opposite inverted spin with a half roll exit. It appears, basis the judging note including the roll exit, that the center is midpoint between the stall and the end of the exit roll. (AMA defines the stall as center of the spin - no such language in FAI.)
 
Thoughts?
 
Earl

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