Description Re: Snap rolls (MK clipped for repost)

[Rcmaster199 at aol.com]

I agree Ed, snaps are not that hard to define. And it isn't hard to  describe 
the judging. Several of us (Dean, Dave and Earl to name 3) have tried  to do 
exactly that and all have done a pretty good job. 
 
What has been hard, at least the last three times the Snap subject has come  
up, is to get consensus. Well, forget consensus, try common ground. 
 
Let's take a different approach and try to add to the existing description.  
The existing description includes the following,:
1- starts with definite break in pitch attitude.
2- stalled maneuver
3- tail inscribes cone
4- CG continues on same flight path as prior to entry.
5- there are several rulebook things that will zero the maneuver
 
Now for some adders:
1- should any displacement in yaw be allowed before downgrading? How much  
displacement? Personally I think less than half wingspan (3 feet) is reasonable  
buffer. (Forget about design differences in Pattern. It's a thorougbred event 
 and designers should have all parameters optimized)
2- how much displacemnt in pitch should be allowed before  downgrading? Again 
I think less than half wing span (3 feet) is  reasonable
3- how about snap rate? slower, more graceful vs faster, more  violent snap- 
should it be a judged criterion? I believe that fast snaps  and slow snaps 
should have equal footing.
 
Not specifically an adder per se',  what about KFactro for these  maneuver 
types, as Ron suggested earlier? Personally, I don't think a change is  
warranted but is worth looking into to see where folks stand.
 
I challenge all who wrote to the earlier thread, to put their creative caps  
back on and help nail down the snap's description more definitely. Add to  my 
list or start your own. Then lets put it all together and propose it to the  
Contest Board. IF it passes, then help spread the word to all who are not  
online.
 
MattK
 
 
 
In a message dated 12/30/2004 1:11:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
Ed_Alt at hotmail.com writes:

 There are lot's of preconceived notions that should be laid to rest  and 
some objective criteria established to do this right.  I don't think  it's that 
hard to describe how to judge snaps right.  It will be harder  to get guys to 
actually do it though, but we have to start somewhere.
 
Ed
 
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From:  _Rcmaster199 at aol.com_ (mailto:Rcmaster199 at aol.com)  
To: _discussion at nsrca.org_ (mailto:discussion at nsrca.org)  
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 12:28  PM
Subject: Re: Snap rolls 


Interesting regarding snap speed Ron. I believe a Pattern model snap  can be 
slowed down and can be easier to judge that way. I slowed my 1 1/2  snaps of 
the last masters Ava down so I know it can be done. At the same  time, I was 
rewarded by some and zeroed by another at the Nats. Why? not  violent enough 
(verbatim one judge's opinion). 
 
Making up rules as we go isn't a good  thing.


 
 


Agreed.

 
I don't want to see snaps removed from AMA, if they stay in  F3A.  Masters 
class-   is, can, and should be, a step  on the way to F3A for those moving on.
 
A thought for discussion- might we put a lower K-Factor on maneuvers  with 
snaps in AMA schedules?   They remain for pilot  challenge and judge training, 
but the impact of imperfect judging is  reduced.
 
Later, Ron Lockhart
 

 

Pattern planes have no excuses. I see no reason the desired  features can't 
be designed in to facilitate desired outcome.
 
MattK






 
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