Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so quiet?)

[John Pavlick]

Is that all you guys can come up with? There hasn't been a post to the list
in almost 10 minutes! Why is it so QUIET????

John Pavlick
http://www.idseng.com


  -----Original Message-----
  From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On
Behalf Of Bob Pastorello
  Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 8:20 PM
  To: discussion at nsrca.org
  Subject: Re: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so quiet?)


  Bravo, Ed!  The figure skating analogy is exactly what I use when I'm
describing pattern to a non-flyer.  They understand the idea of
"compulsories", which is basically what we're doing.  They understand
complexity, also.
      AND - nearly everyone understands that it is the ULTIMATE in
"impression" judging.  In fact, in many of those events they have a
"technical" score (for us it would be geometry, accuracy, exits/entries,
etc) and an "artistic" score (which for us would be all the elements of
presentation, timing, finesse, "touch", etc)
      Ed, I for one, am not at all afraid of joining your comment about us
"following" the FAI and it's effects on our maneuver choices.  We've lost a
considerable amount of the grace and "artistry" that precision aerobatics
CAN have.
      And by doing so, as you so astutely noted, we have been FORCED to
introduce judging criteria, parameters, and details that 90% of us mere
mortals cannot POSSIBLY differentiate, much less SEE.

  Great comment, Ed!! Thank you for posting it!

  Bob Pastorello
  NSRCA 199  AMA 46373
  rcaerobob at cox.net
  www.rcaerobats.net


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Ed Miller
    To: discussion at nsrca.org
    Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 7:10 PM
    Subject: Re: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so quiet?)


    Seems the never ending snap discussion was beat to death here last year
too. This will be long but hear me out. No doubt what I'm about to say will
at the very least be controversial. That's fine with me as I think we need
to think outside the box more often. My wife enjoys watching figure skating.
Being the "supportive spouse", on occasion I will watch for a bit with her.
It seems in figure skating, the multiple rotation jumps, triples and even
quadruple rotation variations is where all the judging ( and viewing )
emphasis is placed in a skaters routine. It also seems the judging is
focused on 2 things, the entry to the jump and "sticking" the landing.
Frankly, those that say they can see every element of the skaters rotation
are, IMHO, full of blank. It plain happens too fast. I have better eyesight
than most, in my younger days I could pick up the stitching and rotation of
a baseball thrown at 90mph. I'll admit, some of that sharpness is gone but,
I honestly cannot pick up all the rotation elements in a figure skaters jump
in real time ( we all can when they replay it in slow-mo ). Ever since the
snap roll was introduced into precision aerobatics, an oxymoron IMHO, we
have had the same problems judging snaps as professional figure skating
judges have judging triple toe loops. I have watched ( and learned some )
from the real snap masters, aka Lockhart and Pappas, yet, when in the judges
chair I look for departure in pitch ( entry ) and "the landing " of the
maneuver ( exit ) . So, to me, we've introduced snaps into precision
aerobatics to separate the wanna be pattern jockey hackers like me from the
gifted, talented folks like Lockhart, Pappas, Hyde, etc. but in fact what
we've done is actually dumbed down our judging criteria. These talented
flyers will find the setup and stick movements to present a maneuver such
that it defies the laws of gravity. However, most of us are only humans and
as judges, only judge what can we realistically see and honestly assess in a
snap roll. Most all snap rolls I've seen done and performed rotate at such a
speed that again, the exit is the focus. Once in awhile you can pick up the
obvious aileron roll exit. There are many more elements of a snap roll
besides entry and exit yet as I read/delete/read/delete, etc. the discussion
we are having here, it boils down to entry and exit positions. The
ex-masters maneuver of 2 rolls in opposite directions. It is a thing of
beauty when done properly  takes a lot of time to perform, especially
compared to our beloved snap rolls, has many more places for the pilot to
screw up that are EASILY VISIBLE to the judges besides the entry and exit
points. That's precision aerobatics IMHO. AMA pattern was always smooth and
graceful until someone decided as the FAI does, so must the AMA. Some will
say it's progress, new maneuvers, it's just raising the bar to let the cream
rise to the top. I'm on the side that the bar has sunk into the cream. Maybe
the some of the lost NSRCA members felt similarly.
    Ed M

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