Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so quiet?)

[Bill Glaze]

Jerry:
Just to give you an idea of the expertise required, there were several 
TOC competitors standing around watching him fly.  Dave Patrick said:  
"I've got it!  I know what he's doing!"  (Or so I remember.  I happened 
to be standing near them when he said it.)  I doubt the judges ever 
sorted it out; it was virtually imperceptible; just enough to get the 
job done.  You simply had to be specifically looking for the input, and 
kind of expecting it before it showed up.  Even after Patrick said he 
had it, others didn't see what he meant.  Interesting lesson, at least 
for me.

Bill Glaze

Jerry Voth wrote:

> How would you judge a snap that meets all the criteria that has been 
> mentioned in this thread that constitutes a good snap but takes almost 
> a full second to complete?
>  
> I also was at the T.O.C. when the guy that won used opposite rudder 
> just prior to his vertical snaps-as I recall it was a very quick move. 
> Wouldn't they be zeroed using the current thinking because the initial 
> break was sideways before the up break?
>  
> kJerry
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Dean Pappas <mailto:d.pappas at kodeos.com>
>     To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
>     Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 3:10 PM
>     Subject: RE: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so quiet?)
>
>     After re-reading the post, it occurred to me I should clarify:
>     I was writing about what I thought a good standard might be.
>     For right now, the book is it, and as Bob pointed out, there is no
>     specific track downgrade.
>     Anyone have an IAC judges' guide handy? I'm curious.
>     By the way, the full scale guys do horrible things to snaps,
>     including completely unstalling the plane (particularly during
>     consecutive snaps).
>     That don't make it right!
>     Archie has a good point, not only does the standard need to be
>     better nailed down, but some people may never be trained to "see
>     fast".
>     Add in some "tired from 4 hours in the chair" and you have mush.
>      
>     This is a good discussion!
>      
>      
>     Dean Pappas
>     Sr. Design Engineer
>     Kodeos Communications
>     111 Corporate Blvd.
>     South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
>     (908) 222-7817 phone
>     (908) 222-2392 fax
>     d.pappas at kodeos.com
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
>         [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Dean Pappas
>         Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 1:15 PM
>         To: discussion at nsrca.org
>         Subject: RE: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so
>         quiet?)
>
>         Hi All,
>         before I crawl back to the lab ... and see what's on the slab ...
>          
>         While I agree that some displacement is inevitable, I wouldn't
>         want to see a rule that says that if you don't see any, then
>         it's not a snap.
>         The very best high energy snaps will displace so little that
>         it will be really hard to say that it's there.
>          
>         1) My guess would be that most really good snaps probably
>         displace about 1/2 wingspan, both up and to the side.
>         Gravity will possibly kill any evidence of the UP part. Try
>         doing an inside snap from inverted, or try a snap from knife
>         edge. You'll see the UP displacement!
>         2) As the elevator throw is reduced, from that needed to do a
>         good snap, the airplane displaces worse and worse, as it takes
>         longer for the plane to stall deeply enough, to make little
>         enough lift to continue changing the airplane's course
>         appreciably.
>         3) If the elevator throw is further reduced, the displacement
>         goes away! Hmm.
>         4) Leading the elevator reduces the necessary amount of throw,
>         for a good snap.
>          
>         Here's the aesthetic question behind the argument:
>         Do we all agree that when you see a snap with an "in your
>         face" break that it really is a thing of beauty?
>         Or do some of us think it's untidy, and not"on a line"? I had
>         a judge ask me (back in '91) "What's with the twitch before
>         the snap?"
>          
>         I'm as confused as anybody. I guess that's as good a way to
>         start the new year as any.
>          
>
>         Dean Pappas
>         Sr. Design Engineer
>         Kodeos Communications
>         111 Corporate Blvd.
>         South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
>         (908) 222-7817 phone
>         (908) 222-2392 fax
>         d.pappas at kodeos.com
>
>              
>
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