[SPAM] Re: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so
quiet?)
rcaerobob at cox.net
rcaerobob at cox.net
Wed Dec 29 09:55:45 AKST 2004
This is another example of the intent of a thread wandering far afoot....as the original questioner, I'd like to refocus my point.
Simply put - according to our CURRENT rules, there is NOT a downgrade criterion for offsetting of the track during a snap maneuver.
I understand the "more skillful" guy should get a point reward (by not getting a downgrade that others may receive), but my point is ----
What is the rule basis for the downgrade?
And since I'm specifically talking about LATERAL track offsets, not vertical or angular, there aren't "general" guidelines to handle this.
My point being that there SHOULD NOT be a scored difference between the line that shifts and the line that doesn't, all other factors being identical between the quality of the two snaps.....simply because we don't have the criteria identified.
Or am I just being logical again?
>
> From: Bill Glaze <billglaze at triad.rr.com>
> Date: 2004/12/29 Wed PM 01:39:00 EST
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so quiet?)
>
> Ed:
> If a new track is acceptable, then, that is a de facto downgrading (by
> not allowing for extra skill) that is being applied to the pilot who
> can, and does, perform a real snap, as opposed to a "fake" snap, and
> keep it on the same line. By not downgrading the pilot who shows a
> different track even though it is parallel, you are not giving a premium
> to the pilot who can perform the difficult task of keeping the snap on
> the same line of the maneuver. It can be done; first time I ever saw it
> was at the TOC on a vertical snap where all the competitors save for one
> person, were offsetting their vertical snaps 2 wingspans to the right,
> (double snap rolls, to the right) This individual was able to keep his
> snap rolls exactly in line. They looked much better. Was he rewarded?
> In a way, I guess. That year he won the TOC, but not, of course, for
> snap rolls alone!<G> BTW: I believe you were there that year, Ed.
> Again: Sorry to be so prolux!
>
> Bill Glaze
>
> Ed Alt wrote:
>
> > Hi Dave:
> > Track & heading are different things, so I'm referring to a new track,
> > exactly parallel to the original one, being 100% acceptable. A new
> > heading however, ought to be subject to the point per 15 degrees criteria.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: David Lockhart <mailto:DaveL322 at comcast.net>
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so quiet?)
> >
> > More than 1 pilot was awarded 1 or more zeros in the 2004 US NATs
> > F3A final on snap maneuvers. The "average" snap in subsequent
> > flights in the finals showed more break / displacement (of course,
> > any break / displacement is infinitely more compared to none,
> > ahem.....).
> >
> > A stalled entry is a required element of spins - no stalled
> > entry, score equals zero. No different for snaps. Judges are
> > required to judge what they actually see (not what they think
> > may have happened), and pilots are required to show / demonstrate
> > / complete all required elements to avoid downgrades (which may be
> > a downgrade to zero).
> >
> > To specifically answer Bob's question - my opinion - if the
> > geometry of the manuever is not compromised, then no downgrade.
> >
> > Another question(s) - In a given maneuver involving a snap, the
> > exit track of the plane is 15 degrees different than the track
> > prior to the snap. What is the downgrade if the change in track
> > is abrupt? What is the downgrade if the change in track is smooth?
> >
> > Regards and Happy Holidays,
> >
> > Dave Lockhart
> > DaveL322 at comcast.net <mailto:DaveL322 at comcast.net>
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: Ed Alt <mailto:Ed_Alt at hotmail.com>
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: Displacement during snap rolls (was Why is it so
> > quiet?)
> >
> > Good topic Bob. If the model really did a snap roll, it had
> > to displace somewhat. If not, and if you could actually tell
> > that it did not, that could be an indicator that a snap roll
> > did not actually happen. Generally, the model has to displace
> > to a new track, however slight, from the yawing and pitching
> > moments introduced. The criteria should perhaps be that you
> > are able to able to maintain the new track exactly in parallel
> > to the pre-snap track. How much offset is OK is hard to say,
> > but things generally start looking suspicious whan it's much
> > more than a couple of wingspans. You would generally start to
> > see other obvious problems, such as barrel rolling, if the
> > displacement were really large. For another perspective, I
> > think the Scale Aerobatics Flying and Judging Guide does
> > a decent job of describing how to grade a snap.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bob Pastorello <mailto:rcaerobob at cox.net>
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 10:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: Why is it so quiet?
> >
> > It can be very, very bad.
> > Or not.
> >
> > Let's talk about displacement of the flight track during
> > snap rolls. Whatcha y'all think? Is it downgradeable,
> > and if so how much, and what is the criteria?
> >
> > Bob Pastorello
> > NSRCA 199 AMA 46373
> > rcaerobob at cox.net <mailto:rcaerobob at cox.net>
> > www.rcaerobats.net <http://www.rcaerobats.net>
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mike Hester <mailto:kerlock at comcast.net>
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:21 PM
> > Subject: Re: Why is it so quiet?
> >
> > Ya well, it's definitely not going on the primary
> > bird. For that I have a trusty OS 160FX with vp30
> > pump. I know it will run when I want it to run.
> >
> > Just like me "testing" a new design, testing my
> > feather cut, testing my composite skillz (or lack of),
> > so far so good. Of course I didn't make the YS, so
> > that one is more of a massochistic tendancy methinks.
> > I'm not skeert to spend a buck. Plus it wouldn't take
> > too much to drop in an OS if it comes to it. I've
> > gotta see for myself if the fire is as hot as it
> > looks. I usually suffer 3rd degree burns right after
> > one of these moments.
> >
> > Classic last words: "How bad could it be?" =)
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> > PS Ok ok NEXT year.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bob Pastorello <mailto:rcaerobob at cox.net>
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: Why is it so quiet?
> >
> > You have less than 3 days, then. Could be tricky
> > for you.
> > Besides, how does one "try" something that costs
> > $700+ ? Sounds a bit like "testing" the $3500
> > plasma tv.....
> >
> > Bob Pastorello
> > NSRCA 199 AMA 46373
> > rcaerobob at cox.net <mailto:rcaerobob at cox.net>
> > www.rcaerobats.net <http://www.rcaerobats.net>
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mike Hester <mailto:kerlock at comcast.net>
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 8:38 PM
> > Subject: Re: Why is it so quiet?
> >
> > YS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Better?
> >
> > =)
> >
> > -Mike
> >
> > P.S. I am actually going to try a DZ 160 some
> > time this year. This could mean the apocalypse
> > is near.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: William C. Harden
> > <mailto:flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net>
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:33 PM
> > Subject: Why is it so quiet?
> >
> > I know someone out there has something
> > interesting to say. So stir something up!
> >
> >
> >
> > Bill
> >
>
>
Bob Pastorello, El Reno, OK, USA
rcaerobob at cox.net
www.rcaerobats.net
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