FW: Motion to adopt.

Tue Dec 14 07:19:19 AKST 2004

You are correct, the opportunities to be ranked as a
judge are few and far between, but they are the only
statistically valid comparisons. I am hoping someone
who is a statistician will jump in and offer the
mathmatical proof, I know enough to be dangerous. I
wish it were possible to enter judge's scores from
every contest into some kind of database to come up
with a performance ranking. Unfortunately, it is
statistically invalid since they are judging different
events at different times with no correlation between
them. The only thing you could compute would be an
average awarded score and a range for each judge which
while interesting, means nothing about absolute
performance. 

--- vicenterc at comcast.net wrote:

> Hi Tony:
> 
> The problem is that the judges that have the
> opportunity to participate in 5 judges event is very
> low.  Are you sure that the data even with two
> judges is not significant?  I will agree that with
> the 5 judges the data will be more significant using
> using two contest only.  With two judges doing all
> country with several contest per judge will become
> significant data also.  At least will be more
> significant than the method is used now.  The
> results from the previous years Nats. should be also
> used since this is three judge event.  In this way,
> NSRCA will give more opportunity to all certified
> judges and the process will be transparent and clear
> to all.  There are other benefits, yes we love
> competition and this will be a competition to become
> better judges.  The end results is that NSRCA will
> help improve not only the pilots skills but also the
> judging skills which is very important part of our
> sport.  
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Vince Bortone
> 
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> 
> Chris/Vince:
> 
> The judging program that the Team created does just
> that!  You can see the standings on the NSRCA
> website.  The standings are created from the data of
> contests where we use a minimum of 5 judges per
> flight.  This is only done (to my knowledge) at the
> US Nats FINALS, and the Team Selection Contest.  The
> requirement of 5 judges in essential to get valid
> statistics.    
> 
> Tony Stillman
> Radio South
> 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
> Pensacola, FL 32505
> 1-800-962-7802
> www.radiosouthrc.com
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Chris Larson 
> To: discussion at nsrca.org 
> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 10:32 PM
> Subject: RE: FW: Motion to adopt.
> 
> 
> I agree Vince.
> 
> HUGE undertaking, but the results would be
> fantastic.  Imagine the ability to compare yourself
> to all judges across the country.  Now that's
> motivation to better yourself at your craft.
> 
> Hmmm..... At the same time, how about a national
> PILOT ranking system, similar to the one used in the
> USTA  ( Tennis ).  I believe they know their rank in
> their given class on a national basis.  Might be
> kind of fun, and good for us guys who can't travel
> to the Nats!  We could still be "competing" with
> guys from the other districts! 
> 
> Publish the top judges and the top competitors in
> each class in the K-Factor.
> 
> Chris Larson
> L & D Sales
> 209-274-2176 Office / Fax
> 209-304-0865 Cellular 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
> vicenterc at comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 7:49 PM
> To: discussion at nsrca.org; NSRCA List
> Cc: Derek Koopowitz
> Subject: Re: FW: Motion to adopt.
> 
> 
> I am firm believer of statistics. I have not chance
> to read the program proposed but I am sure that
> should be based on statistical formulation.  In
> statistics, more data is compiled more valid will be
> the results and conclusions obtained from that
> analysis.  I am not am expert but I would like to
> see in the future a process of judge selection that
> is based on all information compiled in ALL contests
> around the nation.  Yes, I am proposing that all
> data be compiled and used to determine the best
> judges.  I don't think that this is very difficult
> task since the data is already available in
> electronic format.  We will need to make sure that
> the CD sends the information to the NSRCA.  I know
> that there will be many happy faces if some of the
> new candidates support this effort. 
>  Mortal guys like me will say that this is
> impossible.  However, this is very easy task to
> someone expert in databases and computer
> programming.  We just need to make sure that all
> scoring programs produce the data in the format
> required.  That program will use the judge NSRCA
> number to send the information to be processed at
> the end of the year or season.  
> The results of a process like this will be of
> immense value.  First, we will know how we are doing
> compared with others as judges in the nation. 
> Second, we will have the opportunity to try to
> improve each year base on the feedback.  In the
> nats., we will have more flexibility in selecting
> judges for different classes and team selection.
> Sincerely,
> Vince Bortone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------- Original message -------------- 
> 
> > Just goes to show how some people have selected
> memory loss with regard to 
> > the judge evaluation program... Please read the
> quoted lines that RVP quoted 
> > below - Eric H. is VERY familiar with the judge
> selection process and was 
> > instrumental in getting it through the board of
> directors on 12/10/2002. 
> > 
> > Why is he questioning it now when he proposed its
> vote? Oh I get it... It's 
> > election time! 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: Ron Van Putte [mailto:vanputte at nuc.net] 
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 9:41 AM 
> > To: officers at nsrca.org 
> > Cc: Tony Stillman 
> > Subject: Re: Motion to adopt. 
> > 
> > [NSRCA Officers] 
> > I second the motion. 
> > 
> > As I explained at the Nats board meeting, Tony
> Stillman, Matt Kebabjian, Don 
> > Ramsey and I have hammered out the skeleton of the
> judge evaluation prog 

=====
Bob Kane
getterflash at yahoo.com

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