TBLP

[Bill Glaze]

Well, I see TBLP as far more than simply discarding high and low 
scores.  The book describes it very  well.  To simply do this would not 
be satisfactory in the case of the rigorous judging criterion set out in 
the manual.  It may work satisfactorily for us, considering the usual 
number of judges in actual competitions here, but, still and all, is 
certainly not the same thing.  Even their book admits of some "fuzzy" 
areas.  If you simply disqualify the scores of the high judge, then you 
may have another judge nearly as, but not quite, as high, leading to 
errors of purpose.
 This discussion has, I am sure, put most of our participants on this 
list fast asleep.
The only quarrel I had, initially, was the statement that TBLP was not 
for rating judges, but for scoring pilots.  As I see it, that simply is 
not true.
The explanation of TBLP itself, in the book, disputes the quoted statement.

Bill Glaze

Derek Koopowitz wrote:

>Bill,
>
>I'm extremely well versed in TBL and TBLP.  I don't need to read the book -
>been there, done that... A long time ago.  :)
>
>What I am saying is that if you characterize TBL as rating judges then you
>have to characterize high/low discard as the same thing.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org] On
>Behalf Of Bill Glaze
>Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 3:41 PM
>To: discussion at nsrca.org
>Subject: Re: TBLP
>
>Well , you were the one who mentioned TBLP in the first place, (incorrectly,
>in my opinion) not me.  And, I recall somewhere in the not too distant past,
>you were involved in a discussion of  the possibility of using TBLP at
>Muncie.  (Whether you were in favor or against, I don't
>recollect.)
>If you care to read the book describing TBLP, you will see that it is a far
>more rigorous exercise than just a high/low discarding of scores.  
>In fact, it takes up 2-1/2 pages of formulas and descriptions.
>As far as throwing out the high and low judges, (as we presently do) the IAC
>Rule Book says, (and I quote) "Excluding the highest and lowest judges does
>not remove the second or third out-of-range or biased judges, and often does
>remove judges who are the most rigorous with their scores."  Ibid P. 141
>Read the book.  It's interesting.
>
>Bill Glaze
>
>
>Derek Koopowitz wrote:
>
>  
>
>>F3A uses TBL not TBLP - a subtle difference.  As an aside to this... If 
>>what you wrote below is the case then in everyday Nats competition the 
>>judges are being judged as well - we discard high/low scores.  What's the
>>    
>>
>difference?
>  
>
>>One other point - TBL (or TBLP) is NOT used in any AMA pattern event 
>>(to my
>>knowledge) so this point is moot. 
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: discussion-request at nsrca.org 
>>[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze
>>Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 2:57 PM
>>To: Discussion
>>Subject: TBLP
>>
>>A statement was made in this discussion group,  about the TBLP system 
>>not being for ranking judges, but for scoring pilots.  I believe this 
>>statement to be in error.
>>Either that, or I have misunderstood the meaning of the statement.
>>In actuality, it (Tarasov-Bauer-Long-Penteado) is used to determine 
>>which judges may or may not fall outside a "window" of scoring.  It is 
>>used to identify, in any given contest, those judges who are outside 
>>the "norm."  It is explicitly stated* that "In case you judges are 
>>concerned this process corrupts your rankings, when the scores are 
>>normalized in this manner to remove stylistic differences between 
>>judges, THE RELATIVE STANDING OF EACH PILOT IS NOT AFFECTED."  
>>(sic)(Caps mine)  It further states that "in world championships where 
>>ten (10) judges are used, it is not uncommon to see three (3) or even 
>>four (4) judges deleted from a pilot's flight scores."  I believe that 
>>these statements indicate that the judges are, in fact, the ones being
>>    
>>
>judged.
>  
>
>>It is a fairly rigorous mathematical exercise and points out those 
>>judges who may not be scoring contestants in a manner consistent with 
>>good judging practices.
>>This book makes very interesting reading.  Underlying it all is that 
>>even with the full size aircraft, and  world class competitors, in a 
>>sport many years old, the participants and executives are still even 
>>now concerned with judging.  And wisely so.
>>
>>*International Aerobatic Club Official Contest Rules (Red Book) 
>>appendix II, P. 141-147 As modified 1999
>>
>>Bill Glaze
>>
>>
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>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>
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