Wind correction / wings level take 2

[spbyrum]

You never seem to have any trouble downgrading it for me!!!!  A point
for wings not level and a point for off heading before I get to do
anything else wrong.  A guy sure can run out of points fast.

Steve Byrum

-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
On Behalf Of jivey61 at bellsouth.net
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 4:01 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: Wind correction / wings level take 2

 Jim
 The same thing happens when you pull a radius to  vertical and your
wings are not level to start with.You have to correct with rudder and
aileron to make the plane go vertical.I call it the rudder-aileron
squirm. That's what it looks like
It's not pretty but effective. I'm not sure how to downgrade it either
unless you  cut it for a wings level deduction at the beginning of the
radius.

 Jim Ivey
> 
> From: Jim_Woodward at beaerospace.com
> Date: 2004/08/09 Mon PM 01:39:25 EDT
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Wind correction / wings level take 2
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I think discussion about 1 single maneuver will address everything I
sent 
> initially below.  P05, Reverse humpty-bump, 2/4 down, 1/2 roll up: 
> Scenario.  The wind is blowing 20 mph 90 degrees out. 
> 
> 1.  Entry;  the plane is flying a horizontal inverted track at the top
of 
> the box right to left, the fuselage is yawed 10 degrees  inward to 
> compensate for the wind. 
> 2.  Entry Radius:  Pilot pulls up elevator while simultaneously adding

> aileron and rudder to transition the plane to a vertically tracked 
> downline, fuselage is angled into the wind to maintain vertical track.
> 3.  2/4 is performed maintaining track (still angled in to compensate
for 
> the wind)
> 4.  Bottom radius:  The pilot pushes around the bottom adding rudder
to 
> maintain track, ailerons to level the wings around the bottom, then 
> opposite rudder to lean "into" the wind on the upline. (obviously,
pilot 
> nor judge wants to see banked wings at the bottom this maneuver which 
> would result if no aileron was added due to downline cant/angle of 
> fuselage to maintain track).
> 5.  1/2 roll is performed still angled in somewhat.
> 6.  Pilot switches rudder input to still compensate for the wind on
the 
> upline.
> 7.  Exit radius:  Pilot pushes out, using rudder to maintain heading,
and 
> aileron to create wings level across the top of the box.  Blended in
with 
> the exit, the plane is now wings level angled "in" to compensate for
the 
> wind, heading into the reverse double I.
> 
> There is a lot of "flying" going on in the 3 different radii of this 
> maneuver.  The wings/plane MUST actually roll to achieve the various 
> "wings-level" positions of the: downlines, bottom radius, upline, and
upon 
> exit.  Is this amount of "flying" done in the radii simply addressed
in 
> the wind correction statements like:  "each maneuver must be 
> wind-corrected to preserve the overall geometry"?
> 
> My contention again is that the plane MUST perform a blended rolling 
> element during the radii to create a cross-wind corrected maneuver.  I

> think the best looking thing to do is move the wings at a rate 
> proportional to the arc of the radii - thus, you don't "see" a
discreet 
> aileron fix.  A discrete aileron fix at the end of the radii would be
a 
> certain queue to downgrade.  I believe I've learned the correct way to
fly 
> a cross wind condition, but I have not heard anyone really discuss the

> amount or "flying" going on in the various radii to handle a cross
wind 
> condition.
> Thanks,
> Jim W.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Forwarded by Jim Woodward/BEA on 08/09/2004 01:05 PM -----
> 
> 
> Jim_Woodward at beaerospace.com
> Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> 08/09/2004 09:12 AM
> Please respond to discussion
> 
>  
>         To:     discussion at nsrca.org
>         cc: 
>         Subject:        Wind correction / wings level
> 
> 
> 
> Hi All, 
> 
> I want to bring up a discussion point about wind correction.  This may

> seem obvious to some but I want to ensure I have the right picture in
my 
> mind (started thinking about this since Don S. posted his comments
about 
> Q.S. flying wind correction in finals, and confirmed during some
practice 
> yesterday).   
> 1.  Wind correction is supposed to be done while maintaining wings
level. 
> 2.  You are supposed to use the yaw angle to correct for the wind.   
> Situation:  Pilot is flying a square loop ( at center).  Wind is
blowing 
> 90 degree out 20 mph.  Pilot fly's past center at a some yaw angle in
to 
> compensate for the wind blowing out.  The pilot pulls a 90 degree
radius 
> to a vertical upline.  The fuselage is canted in to the wind to
compensate 
> for the wind blowing out.  *Point of discussion:  If the pilot were to

> pull another 90 degree radius, the wings would become "unlevel" as the

> plane reaches the top leg of the square loop.  *Point of discussion:
So, 
> if the pilot is using the correct technique for wind correction (wind 
> correcting force being yaw angle), then every time the pilot creates a

> radius, you should definitely "see" the ailerons moving the wings
through 
> the radius to ensure that as the radius is finished, the wings are
level 
> for the next line and the fuselage is yawed for wind correction.  Same

> thing next radiu s;  The pilot adds pitch, moves the wings,  and adds
the 
> correct rudder to transform the top of the box line to the next
downline 
> (wings level, yawed into the wind), etc.   
> 
> *Point of discussion:  We spend a lot of time concentrating on wings
level 
> for normal pattern flying and usually "any" type of aileron or wing 
> movement is a visual key for a downgrade using the 1 pt / 15 degree
rule. 
> However, this is false to accurately judge flying on a windy day.  In 
> order to fly in a crosswind, nearly EVERY radius will have some amount
of 
> roll induced (and necessary) to ensure that the "lines" can be flown
with 
> wings level and in order to utilize yaw as the wind-correcting force.

> 
> That said/ when and how much roll should be used?  I would guess that
you 
> would want to seamlessly input the pitch, aileron, and rudder so that
the 
> plane just appears to go from one wind corrected line to the other 
> magically.  What is the judging criteria for inputting a roll function
in 
> the radius to ensure the wings stay level & fuselage stays canted
(yawed) 
> into the wind from one wind corrected line to another?  Should the
amount 
> of aileron needed to go from one wind corrected line to another line
start 
> and finish corresponding to the actual duration of the radius?  What
if 
> the pilot only correct s the wing as the plane is nearing the end of
the 
> radius, is this some downgrade because the correction was placed near
the 
> end of the radius instead of "evenly-througout" the radius? 
> 
> I'm sure I'm exaggerating this situation and I am purposefully, to 
> stimulate some talk on the subject.  Again, my contention is that for
some 
> wind conditions, in order to maintain the overall geometry of the
maneuver 
> that there MUST be roll correction during radii to seamlessly move
from 
> one wind corrected line to another, and this roll correction should
not be 
> downgraded.   
> 
> Any takers? 
> Jim W. 
> 
> 

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