Some Clarification on the Rolling Circle

[Don Ramsey]

Here's some clarification on the rolling circle from F3A Committee Chairman Bob Skinner.  There are several emails here but the gist of the matter is distance out on the rolling circle and downgrades for exceeding the 200 meters (severe downgrade).  The final response was, "The main criterium here is visibility."

Don 

Bob Skinner's reply to the E-Mail I sent him regarding the rolling circle.

I hope this clears up a few things 

Bob Ailles
----- Original Message ----- 
  Dear Bob

  Maybe the description could have been put differently. Currently it states that if done TOWARDS the runway, it must not infringe on the box limits, in which case the normal progressive downgrade would apply. In all my years of being involved in competitive aerobatics, I have never seen one done towards the runway.

  The main criterium here is visibility. If the pilots do the circle so large that you are unable to see the change-over, or any other component of the manoeuvre clearly, it's not going to earn a high score. From your description, Brandon and Kevin's circles seem perfectly acceptable.

  Best regards

  Bob Skinner



    -----Original Message-----
    From: Robert Ailles [mailto:thejudgebob at blueyonder.co.uk] 
    Sent: 04 August 2004 22:48
    To: Bob Skinner (E-mail)
    Subject: Rolling circle


    Dear Bob

    Is there something wrong here, or is it just me not grasping the meaning of the description or the judging notes of this manoeuvre.

    F-05.10 Rolling circle with three rolls opposite directions, first roll to the outside:

    Perform a rolling circle (away from or towards the runway)
    yet in the juding notes, it states the manoeuvre must be downgraded if done towards the runway.

    Bob at the present Brandon and Kevin start this manoeuvre at a depth of approximately 110metres and go out to a depth of 350 to 450 metres approximately.
    At what depth do you feel they should be and is 450metres to deep?

    Regards, 
    Bob A
  From: Don Ramsey 
  To: Robert Ailles 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:59 PM
  Subject: Re: Rolling circle


  Bob,

  We showed leniency in our team trials also on the rolling circle but there were some judges who believed the rule book should be followed and downgraded for anything beyond 200 meters.  
  On the rolling circle done in:
  ! Manoeuvre must be downgraded if the circle is too large, and too far out, or if done towards the runway, the circle is outside the manoeuvring zone.

  I believe this to indicate it should be downgraded if it goes out of the box on either end or on top.  All these box violations might happen if the roll was done in.

  Thanks for you reply,
  Don

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Robert Ailles 
    To: Don Ramsey 
    Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 4:45 PM
    Subject: Fw: Rolling circle


    Don 
    Sorry for the delay in answering  your E-Mail.
    I would say that a depth of 500metres would receive a 3 point downgrade, for being to deep.
    But it is a hard one to call for a judge, as we have no way of measuring the true depth, I feel we do need to show some leniency up to 400metres but that for Bob Skinner to decide. 
    At the moment we are showing some leniency over here, rightly or wrongly how knows. 
    A copy of the E-Mail sent to Bob Skinner. I will send you a copy of his reply.
    are the comment I made on landing sequence OK  and do you agree with them.
    Bob
     Is there something wrong here, or is it just me not grasping the meaning of the description or the judging notes of this manoeuvre.

    F-05.10 Rolling circle with three rolls opposite directions, first roll to the outside:

    Perform a rolling circle (away from or towards the runway)
    yet in the juding notes, it states the manoeuvre must be downgraded if done towards the runway.


    At the present Brandon and Kevin start this manoeuvre at a depth of approximately 110metres and go out to a depth of 350 to 450 metres approximately.
    At what depth do you feel they should be and is 450metres to deep?

    Regards, 
    Bob Ailles
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