Webra and Judging questions

[David Lockhart]

Dave,

No pardon needed.

Obviously enough, once the 1st radius is completed, it must be duplicated 3 times or downgrades will occur.  However, the idea is this - 3 of 4 radii (any 3) on a square loop match - the 4th (any 1) is larger or smaller.  It doesn't matter whether the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th radius is the one that does not match - the downgrade is for 1 radius being mismatched.

A square loop at center could have 4 radii that are all different and still be a square - judge the overall shape of the maneuver - ie -
- up and downline are equally spaced left/right of the center pole and maintain vertical track, 
- top and bottom lines maintain track with same entry/exit altitude,
- distance between top/bottom lines is same as up/down lines.

And while I suspect you know, in addition to the entry and exit radii needing to be equal on humpties, they are only 2 of the 3 radii in the manuever - the entry and exit radii must be equal to the top (or bottom) half loop radius.  Same goes for things like the goldfish (entry, exit, and 3/4 loop) and golfball (entry, exit, and 3/4 loop) in the F3A schedules - and those are probably 2 of the manuevers where I've seen the greatest variance in radii.

Regards,

Dave Lockhart
DaveL322 at comcast.net

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Wartel 
  To: discussion at nsrca.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 8:32 PM
  Subject: Re: Webra and Judging questions


  Please pardon my ignorance, but I'm fairly new to pattern and judging. I'm having a hard time understanding this. Nothing was said about this at the judging seminar I attended in June, (that I remember) except that radii should be equal. Also, if maneuvers are judged on symmetry, how can, for instance, a square loop or cuban eight be symmetrical if the radii are not all equal?

  Matt, I hope you can clarify your answer as it seems contradictory to me. On one hand the first radius does not set the standard for the others, but the entry and exit radii should be the same for Humpty's and top hats etc??

  Dave

  ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Rcmaster199 at aol.com 
    To: discussion at nsrca.org 
    Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 7:14 PM
    Subject: Re: Webra and Judging questions


    That's correct. The first radius does not set the standard for the others. If all are done same as the first, no downgrade due to radius differencess. If 2 out 4 are different, 2 points or more depending on severity.

    Same rationale for other maneuvers like Humpty's, top Hats, or Cuban 8's, or even stalls for that matter: entry and exit radii should be same and if not, 2 points for that infraction alone or more depending on severity

    MattK
      The rc pattern judges' guide in the AMA rulebook lists downgrades for unequal radii for all the maneuvers with looping segments including the square loop. It says nothing about an exception for the first segment.

      ----- Original Message ----- 
        From: John Crozier 
        To: discussion at nsrca.org 
        Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 10:02 AM
        Subject: Webra and Judging questions


        1. Is there a "downside" to running Powermaster 20-20 in the 145 Webra?
        2. Do I recall correctly that the first radius of a looping maneuver does NOT set the standard for the other radii in the maneuver?
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