A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"

Mon Apr 19 14:16:31 AKDT 2004

On Apr 19, 2004, at 4:56 PM, Wayne Galligan wrote:

> You got to admit that at least on this discussion board it certainly 
> gets
> hashed out.  I have seen other discussion boards that flat out get 
> into a
> near brawl by the time the thread stops.

OK time for the brawl! <VBG>

Ron Van Putte

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ed Miller" <edbon85 at optonline.net>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 4:42 PM
> Subject: Re: A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"
>
>
>> Well, you are in charge of judging at the BDS contest so go for it.
>> Personally, since we have so few spectators at a contest I don't see 
>> who
> it
>> is benefiting. IMHO seems like we've found a lot of answers for an
>> unnecessary question. If all this would lead to eliminating the 
>> scribe,
>> helping judges judge better and helping the CD the day of the event 
>> I'd be
>> all for it. The hand signals to the scribe and the judge placing the
> scores
>> on a separate sheet to then be transferred to the official score 
>> sheet to
> me
>> is a classic example of complicating a simple task. The only way to
>> eliminate scribes is for every judge to know by heart every sequence 
>> of
>> every class by heart, not realistic. Short of an electronic scoring
> device,
>> I don't see anything here that is simple enough to have repeatable, 
>> 100%
>> correct results. We ought to focus our energy on preparing better 
>> judges
> and
>> simplifying and clarifying maneuver descriptions so there is no room 
>> for
>> interpretation.
>> Ed M.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Anthony Romano" <anthonyr105 at hotmail.com>
>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 12:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I like the idea. Scribe reads maneuver, judge writes score, scribe 
>>> flash
>>> score to the attendees and reads next maneuver. Could help improve
> judging
>>> and make contest more interesting. When my parents came to a contest
> they
>>> were bored silly untill I gave them play by play of a few flights.
>>> Anyone willing to try it?
>>>
>>> Anthony
>>>
>>>> From: mike mueller <mups1953 at yahoo.com>
>>>> Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>>> Subject: Re: A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"
>>>> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2004 13:37:36 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>
>>>>  The way I  propose the hand signals to work  is like this:
>>>>  Right hand signifys 6 to 10 the thumb and index finger would be a 
>>>> 7.
>> For
>>>> half numbers you simply move the fingers to your palm and extend 
>>>> them
>>>> several times. A whole number stays put and extended. Numbers under 
>>>> a 5
>> are
>>>> on the left hand. I really think that the simplier we keep it the
> better
>> it
>>>> could succeed.
>>>>  Again I'd like to know if someone would like to trial this system 
>>>> at
> a
>>>> contest. If only for a couple of rounds with willing participants. I
>> think
>>>> it's worth a try. I don't think there's anything in the rules that
> would
>>>> prevent this. Thanks, Mike
>>>>
>>>> Lance Van Nostrand <patterndude at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> for me, I totally agree with these guys.  RVP was the first to 
>>>> suggest
>> this
>>>> that I heard at the nats a few years ago and I started doing it this
> way
>>>> and knew it was the way to go.  I write the scores on the pad in a
> column
>>>> without taking my eyes off the plane.
>>>>   Maybe the easiest, low tech way to announce the scores is to have
> the
>>>> scribe be the "publisher" for the manuver scores during the flight, 
>>>> and
>>>> then copys the scores to the official sheet in between rounds.
>>>>    As a technology guy (s/w engineer) I'd love to see electronic
>>>> scoreboards and PDA systems, but for over 100 years simple hand 
>>>> signals
>>>> have served the arbitragers in the stock market.  A simple 
>>>> adaptation
> of
>>>> this system would be:
>>>> 1. Show the main score with your fingers, top of the hand facing the
>>>> audience
>>>> 2. If a hand is turned so that a palm is facing the audience, then 
>>>> add
>> 1/2
>>>> point
>>>>
>>>> Even if there are a few mistakes along the way with the palms, the
>> audience
>>>> will be informed to within a 1/2 point.
>>>>
>>>> --Lance
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Ron Van Putte
>>>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2004 7:57 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: A possible answer to lousy judging "Flash cards"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 17, 2004, at 5:47 AM, Del K. Rykert wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The only other system I have found that works well is using a pad to
>> write
>>>> down the scores and hopefully the scribe can read my scribble and I
> don't
>>>> overwrite my scores. It is better but not perfect. At least not 
>>>> perfect
>> for
>>>> me. When I have a knowledgeable scribe that is used to my system 
>>>> scores
>>>> flow. When I have a warm body stuck in scribes chair the system 
>>>> breaks
>> down
>>>> no matter what the system is in some cases especially while judging
> FAI.
>>>>     Keep the thoughts flowing and something better might be created.
>>>>
>>>> I do what Del describes, except that I usually don't use a scribe.
> After
>>>> the last airborne maneuver, I transcribe from the pad to the
> scoresheet.
>> I
>>>> am usually done before the airplane is on final landing approach.
>>>>
>>>> Ron Van Putte
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------
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>>>
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