Pattern & IMAC 2003 Nationals articles in AMA Mag.

rcaerobob at cox.net rcaerobob at cox.net
Thu Oct 30 07:46:35 AKST 2003 

This note will likely rankle some, but it may give you pause to consider...
  The AMA - by definition - is *NOT* a "competition support" kind of organization.  They get a LOT of heat (and LOTS MORE $$$$$$) from the NON-COMPETITION member.  Although it may be tough to swallow, the reality is that competition aerobatic pilots comprise MAYBE point.1 percent of the "paying membership".
  It is very naive to assume that the leaders of the AMA would be more sensitive to the smallest of influences in the budget.
  Forgive me if I sound cynical, but the AMA officers are dealing with ugly realities of terrible expense increases due to insurance and litigated settlements (and probably some inefficiencies in the USE of $$).  The AMA needs all those tens of thousands of members, so THAT is the population that the EC better cater to....or did I miss something really important?
  Precision aerobatics does NOT have the "hammer" to influence the AMA site usage policy(ies).  I think we are best left to our own solutions if/when AMA sez "no mas" to the "Muncie-centric Model Aviation world"...
  Cause collectively, we don't have the lever to change it.

> 
> From: "Jeff Hughes" <jhughes at hsonline.net>
> Date: 2003/10/30 Thu AM 11:13:31 EST
> To: discussion at nsrca.org,  <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Subject: RE: Pattern & IMAC 2003 Nationals articles in AMA Mag.
> 
> I can't imagine that the original intent of the site was for 
> individuals to use the site for regular old flying time. We pay a lot 
> of dues if we're going to limit the site for national events just so 
> some locals can fly whenever they want.
> 
> > By definition it is a National site - so it should have priority for 
> National events.
> > 
> > To take it a step further the AMA should have several National site 
> strategically situated around the USA.
> > 
> > Enough of the Muncie centric mentality!!!!!!!!!!
> > 
> > AND, while I am on this rant, it should have AMA satellite sites, 
> leased to clubs,  in the Muncie area for running parallel events and 
> so that, back up and  preparation and practice sites are guaranteed 
> for contestants!
> > 
> > 
> > End of rant!.
> > 
> > Eric. 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> > [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Tony Stillman
> > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 10:55 AM
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > Subject: Re: Pattern & IMAC 2003 Nationals articles in AMA Mag.
> > 
> > 
> > I was told by people at AMA that President Dave Brown had received 
> quite a
> > few messages about this (about 200) form pilots complaining that the
> > National Site had too many events, making it unavailable for everyday
> > flying.
> > 
> > Tony Stillman
> > Radio South
> > 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
> > Pensacola, FL 32505
> > 1-800-962-7802
> > www.radiosouthrc.com
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "John Crozier" <sjcrozier at comcast.net>
> > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 10:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: Pattern & IMAC 2003 Nationals articles in AMA Mag.
> > 
> > 
> > > Where did the notion that "AMA wants the facility available more to
> > regular
> > > members" originate?
> > > If that's true, I agree that it is a lame excuse to not extend the 
> NATS.
> > > I live in the Muncie area, and fly there occasionally.
> > > Usually when meeting an out- of -town buddy, as my home field has a
> > no-guest
> > > policy.
> > > On any given week-day, we are almost always the only fliers there.
> > > Occasionally, a couple of glider pilots show up.
> > > Weekends will see a slightly larger turnout if the weather 
> is "nice".
> > > Munsee SkyChiefs have "trainer night" on Tuesdays.
> > > The club offers trainers with buddy cords, and instructors, for 
> people who
> > > are interested in learning.
> > > During the NATS, the club uses their home field at the Muncie 
> reservoir.
> > > Approximately 50 of us fliers in this area are scattered among 
> Three
> > "behind
> > > the barn" flying sites.
> > > These  sites are certified for insurance purposes, and used at the
> > pleasure
> > > of the farmer-land owner on a year-to-year agreement.
> > > In summery:
> > > The AMA has no registration procedure for site users, so I can 
> only relate
> > > what I have seen.
> > > I have seen 0 to 4 fliers on weekdays, and as many as Six fliers on
> > > weekends.....croz
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Gray E Fowler" <gfowler at raytheon.com>
> > > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 2:43 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Pattern & IMAC 2003 Nationals articles in AMA Mag.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Wow ! If the AMA wants the facility available more to regular 
> members
> > then
> > > > that is a very lame excuse. The national flying site was built 
> for the
> > > > NATS, not just in case someone is traveling thru the cornfields 
> of
> > > > Indiana....with an airplane....I do believe Steve Maxwell(lives  
> nearby)
> > > > told me that people rarely fly there anyway...so if that was an 
> official
> > > > excuse  to shorten the NATS, then it is just plain lame. The 
> average AMA
> > > > member could get more flying time by staying home.  This just 
> seems so
> > > > incredible if it is true....the world's largest site dedicated 
> to RC
> > JUST
> > > > IN CASE you are in Indiana with a plane......Imagine if the AMA 
> held no
> > > > competition and did not need the flying site, only an admin 
> blgd, how
> > much
> > > > better off financially the AMA would be.
> > > > If this is true we should fire every AMA executive we know and 
> replace
> > > > them with Dilbert managers...we would be much better off....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Gray Fowler
> > > > Principal Chemical Engineer
> > > > Composites Engineering
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
> > > > Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> > > > 10/29/2003 12:24 PM
> > > > Please respond to discussion
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >         To:     discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >         cc:
> > > >         Subject:        Re: Pattern & IMAC 2003 Nationals 
> articles in
> > AMA
> > > Mag.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Brian Young wrote:
> > > > Whats the reasoning behind wanting a smaller time
> > > > slot? We have this huge national facility....seems odd.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The AMA "rents" the facility to AMA members so they can stop by 
> the
> > > > facility, visit the museum and fly an airplane on one of the 
> sites.  The
> > > > Nats are held during the prime flying season (past Nats 
> attenders may
> > > > argue that statement, based on bad weather), so the time for 
> ordinary
> > AMA
> > > > members use the facility is reduced.  If they make the total 
> duration of
> > > > the Nats shorter, more AMA members can use the facility.
> > > >
> > > > Ron Van Putte
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> > > > [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
> > > > Ron Van Putte
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 10:35 AM
> > > > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Pattern & IMAC 2003 Nationals articles
> > > > in AMA Mag.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > One problem I see looming on the horizon is the AMA
> > > > will force NSRCA and IMAC to share the same 5 day
> > > > period at the Nats.  The AMA Executive Council has
> > > > already gone on record that it wants the Nats to be
> > > > done in a shorter time frame.  Initially this will
> > > > be implemented by pushing existing SIG time slots
> > > > closer together, but, sooner or later, they will
> > > > probably take note of the shrinking numbers of IMAC
> > > > pilots at the Nats and decide that the NSRCA and
> > > > IMAC can be done during the same time frame.
> > > >
> > > > Henderson,Eric wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike,
> > > >           I have always hated the split. I know how
> > > > and why it happened and also know that you can't
> > > > change the past.  I fly anything with wings and
> > > > especially like flying both types of planes. (The
> > > > real difference is the equipment specifications).
> > > > The classes flown and the styles do need separate
> > > > organizations to take care of their needs.
> > > >
> > > > I wrote this several months ago, "Create the USRCA -
> > > > United States Radio Controlled Aerobatics - A forum
> > > > for common and collaborative issues to provide
> > > > united national representation, (in particular to
> > > > the AMA). Core group would be two rep's from each
> > > > current and any new RC aerobatics SIG's".  (Nothing
> > > > nasty came up on Google with the acronym-BTW). today
> > > > this would be IMAC, SPA and the NSRCA forming the
> > > > initial umbrella organization.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The inherent problem with each discipline forming
> > > > its own SIG is that the word "special" leads to much
> > > > "specialization" and becomes a synonym for
> > > > separation. Forming a USRCA keeps the SIG identities
> > > > and operations fully functional, but creates a forum
> > > > for common issues such as, sound regulation, Nat's
> > > > locations, contest scheduling, rules cycles etc.
> > > > that affect us all.
> > > >
> > > > Howzat for food for thought.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Eric.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [
> > > > mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of
> > > > mike mueller
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 11:19 AM
> > > > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Pattern & Imac 2003 Nationals articles
> > > > in AMA Mag.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >  I feel that we have so much in common with the IMAC
> > > > guys. I really think that we would benefit if we
> > > > would merge into one group and bring in the SPA guys
> > > > too. It's RC aerobatics and 1 group would be more
> > > > effective from the standpoint of strength in numbers
> > > > and eliminating redundancy. If we would work
> > > > together we would be much better off. But hey that's
> > > > just my opinion. Mike
> > > >
> > > > george kennie  <mailto:geobet at gis.net>
> > > > <geobet at gis.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Boy, I had a similar reaction. After all the hype
> > > > over the last several years about how Imac is the
> > > > fastest growing venue of the sport, they had a total
> > > > head count of 37??? C'mon, at a Nationals
> > > > event???????????  As far as representatives of a
> > > > SIG, it appears that they had absolutely zero
> > > > support people. You can't feel that this is due to
> > > > some economic condition, as all these guys seem to
> > > > have airplanes in the >$7500 category. It also
> > > > sounds like they do not have a judging program to
> > > > certify potential judges, as there were many
> > > > complaints regarding unfair scoring awards,
> > > > resulting in many pilots realizing that they had
> > > > been unduly cheated.
> > > > The overall tenor of the entire meet seemed to have
> > > > a great black pall decend upon Muncie for the
> > > > duration of their event with nobody leaving for home
> > > > with a good feeling.
> > > > This report certainly does not bode well as an
> > > > encouraging carrot regarding future attendance.
> > > > Their venue appears to require a super shot in the
> > > > arm of administrative influx, if they are going to
> > > > survive in a manner capable of sustaining any number
> > > > base.
> > > > It's very SAD!!!!!!!!
> > > > Georgie
> > > >
> > > > Woodward James R Civ 412 TW/DRP wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Have you read the write up by Eric and Ed regarding
> > > > the Pattern and IMAC nats results and event running
> > > > in general?  I really enjoyed reading Eric's
> > > > article.  When I read the IMAC article I thought,
> > > > "Ed has a lot of courage to describe the event the
> > > > way he did."  It once again made me think of how
> > > > lucky we are to have dedicated individuals running
> > > > our Nationals & NSRCA.  Lots of times we start
> > > > threads about what needs to be changed in pattern.
> > > > Given some things could be improved; we must overall
> > > > have a pretty good formula for getting people
> > > > involved & trained in judging.  The articles are
> > > > definitely worth a thorough read!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No flame suit, just starting dialog.
> > > >
> > > > Jim W.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   _____
> > > >
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
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> > > >
> > > >
> > >
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> > > >
> > > > Spears
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
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> > 
> 
> -- 
> CoreComm Webmail. 
> http://home.core.com
> 
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> 

Bob Pastorello, El Reno, OK, USA
rcaerobob at cox.net
www.rcaerobats.net

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