Landings and Take-off's - The vote!.:
Keith Black
tkeithb at comcast.net
Thu Nov 13 15:24:28 AKST 2003
I would hope that the contest board members are privy to all the facts so
they can make the best decisions. For example, if 80% of the NSRCA members
vote against eliminating scored takeoff and landings, and we DON'T include
it on our rules change proposal to the AMA, but an individual submits their
own proposal for this change and gets a few friends to email the contest
board I'd hope they would be aware that 80% of the NSRCA are against it. If
they only knew about the one guy that submitted it and his friends emails
then they my unwittingly vote for something that 80% of the NSRCA are
against.
Seems to me that the best way for the NSRCA to serve it's membership is to
have an NSRCA poll of all private proposals not included on the NSRCA rule
change proposal. This poll would be taken after the deadline to submit
proposals to the AMA, but before the contest board meets to vote on the
proposals. The results of this poll would then be given to the contest board
so they would know the NSRCA's opinion on all proposals, regardless of
originator.
Therefore, if I submitted a rule to drop half point scoring and I got
everyone in my flying club (sport fliers included) to send the contest board
emails demanding this, then the NSRCA membership wouldn't get blind sided by
this proposal. I know we can all do this individually if we make the effort
to look up the proposals and send emails to our district rep., but it would
be much more effective as a group and the participation would be greater
than just expecting everyone to research and email on their own.
I guess you could call this the NSRCA "watch dog" approach.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at cox.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: Landings and Take-off's - The vote!.:
>
> On Nov 13, 2003, at 10:46 AM, Tony Stillman wrote:
>
> > George:
> >
> > Hey, don't be shy about stating you point of view! Many times, I find
> > myself re-thinking things based on this very thing.
> >
> > However, in this instance, the issue is that we have to voice our
> > opinions
> > to the people that vote (the contest board). Each of use have a board
> > member that we can contact in our AMA district. Each of use need to
> > do just
> > that and let them know how we want them to vote on each proposal!
> > This is
> > crucial! Many times these board members are left with NO input from
> > their
> > constituents at all! We don't want that!
> >
> >
>
> It should be mentioned that the NSRCA always makes the results of the
> NSRCA rule change surveys available to the contest board members. In
> fact, during the last cycle, when several members of the board made
> some adverse comments regarding some of the NSRCA rule change
> proposals, we sent them the results of the survey, highlighting that
> their constituents were overwhelmingly in favor of the rule changes.
> They voted for the rule change.
>
> The NSRCA did not submit the takeoff/landing rule change proposal. It
> was an individual's proposal.
>
> Ron Van Putte
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "george kennie" <geobet at gis.net>
> > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 11:33 AM
> > Subject: Re: Landings and Take-off's - The vote!.:
> >
> >
> >> Thanks Tony,
> >> Your instructions will be carried out!
> >> I realize that I, all too often, come across way too strongly, and
> >> while
> > it's
> >> not my intent to ruffle too many feathers too dramatically, I just
> >> happen
> > to be
> >> possessed with the type of personality that gets a little too
> >> passionate
> >> regarding areas, perceived by me, to be unjust. For my ranting I
> > apologize.
> >> While I feel that your instructions are probably the best tack, I
> >> couldn't
> > help
> >> feel that some of these points needed to be aired so I gave voice to
> >> my
> >> concerns.I will indeed abide by your directive and thank you for it.
> >> Respectfully,
> >> Georgie
> >>
> >> Tony Stillman wrote:
> >>
> >>> George:
> >>>
> >>> You points are well taken. The main reason for me bringing any of
> >>> this
> > up
> >>> is to be our NSRCA membership to contact their Contest Board member
> >>> and
> > tell
> >>> them how YOU want THEM to vote!
> >>>
> >>> They don't read this BB, so they don't know how any of us feel about
> >>> any
> > of
> >>> these rules proposals UNLESS YOU TELL THEM!!!!
> >>>
> >>> AM I MAKING MY POINT!!!
> >>>
> >>> GO CALL THEM, OR BE WILLING TO LIVE WITH WHATEVER OUTCOME OF THE
> > VOTE....
> >>>
> >>> Tony Stillman
> >>> Radio South
> >>> 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
> >>> Pensacola, FL 32505
> >>> 1-800-962-7802
> >>> www.radiosouthrc.com
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "george kennie" <geobet at gis.net>
> >>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 1:15 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: Landings and Take-off's - The vote!.:
> >>>
> >>>> The evidence is before you, people!!!!!
> >>>> Here is another blatant example of the upper class flyers forcing
> > their
> >>> agenda upon the lower class flyers, irrespective of the desires of
> >>> the
> >>> masses. Whoever said that we abide by democratic processes might have
> > been
> >>> experiencing a bad hair day!?
> >>>> Between the two referenced maneuvers, there are no less than 17
> > elemental
> >>> judging criteria by which a judge can arrive at a considered award.
> > Think
> >>> about it guys! Seventeen different downgrades! To someone, way back
> > when,
> >>> these maneuvers represented enough merit for that person to spend
> >>> significant
> >>>> contemplation to establish a set of guidelines so that a judge could
> > then
> >>> sit in the chair with a set of effective tools by which a fair award
> > could
> >>> be made.It's pretty obvious, to me, that these maneuvers were
> >>> considered
> >>> important to the person who drew up the rules, and to throw them all
> > away
> >>> would represent
> >>>> an act of disrespect to that individual(s).In my opinion, whoever
> >>> assembled the compendium we have been fortunate to inherit thru the
> >>> directive we affectionately call the "rule book", represents a
> > deliberate
> >>> thinker of magnanamous proportions, and for us to second guess this
> > genius
> >>> would truly be folly.
> >>>> If there are truly problems with the scoring of these two
> > maneuvers,
> >>> then, I feel, there has been a failure in our certification program.
> >>> We,
> > in
> >>> all probability, need to emphasize certain elements of instruction
> > regarding
> >>> these maneuvers.The problem areas need to be fixed. Don't throw the
> >>> baby
> > out
> >>> with the
> >>>> bath water!
> >>>> In my local area I have heard the statement, "Pattern pilots can
> > fly
> >>> well, but they can't land." I have no idea how we came to deserve
> >>> this
> >>> reputation among the sport pilots.I fear that if we remove the
> > referenced
> >>> maneuvers from the sequences, we will be lending support to their
> >>> claim,
> >>> encouraging them to
> >>>> believe that we agree with them.
> >>>> As regards centering and whether the runway is lined or not, the
> >>>> issue
> > of
> >>> judging the size of the landing zone is no more valid than judging
> >>> the
> >>> length of the 15 meter entry and exit line before and after a
> >>> maneuver.
> > I
> >>> have yet to attend a contest where they had lined the sky for the
> >>> event,
> > and
> >>> yet I was
> >>>> entrusted with the ability to assess whether each said line was
> >>>> indeed
> > of
> >>> the correct length(further, there were no protests).If I judge the
> > landing
> >>> zone long or short, maybe the judge next to me judges in the opposing
> >>> direction cancelling me out.Hey!, we're talking about a K-1 maneuver
> > here.
> >>> How many points
> >>>> can I be penalized? Out of a total score of how many hundred
> > points????
> >>>> Another point I would like to address regarding " goes to
> > presentation".
> >>> Watch the really good guys in FAI perform these maneuvers. They do
> >>> them
> > like
> >>> proffessionals!!! Smooth and graceful. Says to the Judge, " I'm worth
> >>> watching closely, you're going to see good stuff from me."
> >>>> Let's not forget the lower class guys as this is an area we worked
> > hard
> >>> to master and we deserve our just desserts
> >>>> Georgie
> >>>>
> >>>> "Henderson,Eric" wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> This how those who cared to vote in the 2004 NSRCA survey, voted on
> >>> landings and Take-off's for 2005 rules proposal changes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Question-10
> >>>>> Should the Take off and Landing be scored in 401.
> >>>>> YES = 152____ NO = 26_____ RESULT = NO CHANGE____
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Question-16
> >>>>> Should take off and landings be scored in Intermediate
> >>>>> YES = 156____ NO = 25_____ RESULT = NO CHANGE____
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Question-19
> >>>>> Should takeoff and landings be scored in Advanced
> >>>>> YES = 135____ NO = 39_____ RESULT = NO CHANGE____
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Question-24
> >>>>> Should takeoff and landings be scored in Masters
> >>>>> YES = 106____ NO = 60_____ RESULT = NO CHANGE____
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As you can see the majority still wanted to have them scored. The
> > vote
> >>> weakened a little in Masters but it still was strong for them both
> >>> to be
> >>> scored.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have noticed a strong affinity, maybe even affection for these
> >>>>> two
> >>> maneuvers. Some believe that they strengthen a pilots flying skill
> >>> etc.
> > I
> >>> think that more planes get hurt trying to land in bad conditions and
> >>> on
> >>> cruddy runways that any skill bonus. Just my opinion so please don't
> >>> get
> > all
> >>> religious on me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Eric.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ====================================# To be removed from this list,
> > send
> >>> a message to
> >>>>> # discussion-request at nsrca.org
> >>>>> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
> >>>>> #
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> "Henderson,Eric" wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> This how those who cared to vote in the 2004 NSRCA survey, voted on
> >>> landings and Take-off's for 2005 rules proposal changes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Question-10
> >>>>> Should the Take off and Landing be scored in 401.
> >>>>> YES = 152____ NO = 26_____ RESULT = NO CHANGE____
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Question-16
> >>>>> Should take off and landings be scored in Intermediate
> >>>>> YES = 156____ NO = 25_____ RESULT = NO CHANGE____
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Question-19
> >>>>> Should takeoff and landings be scored in Advanced
> >>>>> YES = 135____ NO = 39_____ RESULT = NO CHANGE____
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Question-24
> >>>>> Should takeoff and landings be scored in Masters
> >>>>> YES = 106____ NO = 60_____ RESULT = NO CHANGE____
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As you can see the majority still wanted to have them scored. The
> > vote
> >>> weakened a little in Masters but it still was strong for them both
> >>> to be
> >>> scored.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have noticed a strong affinity, maybe even affection for these
> >>>>> two
> >>> maneuvers. Some believe that they strengthen a pilots flying skill
> >>> etc.
> > I
> >>> think that more planes get hurt trying to land in bad conditions and
> >>> on
> >>> cruddy runways that any skill bonus. Just my opinion so please don't
> >>> get
> > all
> >>> religious on me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Eric.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ====================================# To be removed from this list,
> > send
> >>> a message to
> >>>>> # discussion-request at nsrca.org
> >>>>> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
> >>>>> #
> >>>>
> >>>> =====================================
> >>>> # To be removed from this list, send a message to
> >>>> # discussion-request at nsrca.org
> >>>> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
> >>>> #
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> =====================================
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> >>> # discussion-request at nsrca.org
> >>> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
> >>> #
> >>
> >> =====================================
> >> # To be removed from this list, send a message to
> >> # discussion-request at nsrca.org
> >> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
> >> #
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > =====================================
> > # To be removed from this list, send a message to
> > # discussion-request at nsrca.org
> > # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
> > #
> >
>
> =====================================
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