Judging Landing & take-offs. (was Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????)

[Ron Van Putte]

On Nov 12, 2003, at 8:46 AM, Tony Stillman wrote:

> Eric:
>
> The problem with that is that some judges are LOOKING for a reason not 
> to be used.  They see it as a distraction from their task of winning a 
> contest.  If they could do something to be kept off the line, they 
> would, as long as they would not be disqualified to fly! 
>  
> This happened at the NATS several times, when a person could pay the 
> late entry fee and not be included in the worker list.  I know of 
> several who did this for this very reason...
>  
>

This technique no longer works.  In 2003 some registered late and 
discovered they were in the judging matrix anyway.

Ron Van Putte

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Henderson,Eric
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Sent:Wednesday, November 12, 2003 10:19 AM
> Subject:RE: Judging Landing & take-offs. (was Re: Spoilers for Pattern 
> Planes?????)
>
> Ron,
>           Maybe we should select judges like we do jury selection. If 
> they insist on applying their own rules then they don't qualify to 
> judge.
>  
> E.
>  
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
> discussion-request at nsrca.org[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On 
> Behalf Of Ron Van Putte
> Sent:Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:10 AM
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject:Re: Judging Landing & takoffs. (was Re: Spoilers for Pattern 
> Planes?????)
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 11, 2003, at 11:41 PM, Del Rykert wrote:
>
>
> I agree here and I was taught that takeoffs are centered but landings 
> are to use the 30m zone. Is that not that the intended interpretation.
>     
>
>
>
> That's what the rule book says. BUT, some judges who are opinionated, 
> stupid, uninformed, you pick the reason, think the landing must be 
> centered.
>
>
> Ron Van Putte
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: davel322 at comcast.net
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Sent:Tuesday, November 11, 2003 3:41 PM
> Subject:Landing (was Re: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????)
>
>
> Respectfully, I must disagree.
>
>
> If the rules aren't being followed, they should not be eliminated.
>
>
> Barrel rolls and "twinkle" rolls pretending to be snap rolls routinely 
> get
> scored and should be zeroed.  Should we stop judging snaps?
>
>
> Flopped stall turns (more than 150 degrees off in roll axis) routinely 
> are not
> zeroed.  Should we stop judging stall turns?
>
>
> Judging is not an easy task, and there will always be room for 
> improvement. 
> Where the rules are gray (no matter how clear they seemed when 
> originally
> authored) and interpreted in various ways, there is room to clarify 
> the rules. 
> When the rules are clear and ignored, they need to be politely 
> enforced.
>
>
> So far as landing - we have a system for scoring centering on 
> maneuvers and I
> personally don't think we need something different for landing - it is 
> just an
> additional rule that adds needless complexity (but I will follow it as 
> long as
> it is there).  Besides, at many fields, the landing zone is never 
> marked, or
> because of field layout, the landing zone is not used (in which case 
> landing in
> the zone or centering of the landing would not be part of the judging 
> criteria).
>
>
> Dave Lockhart
> DaveL322 at comcast.net
> > Wayne:
> >
> > Exactly the point.  If we can't follow the rules to judge it 
> properly, maybe
> > it's time to quit judging it.  After all, this maneuver has not 
> changed
> > much, even from the early days of pattern  <VBG>  So, if we STILL 
> can't
> > judge it, let's try something else....
> >
> > I see this problem at most all of the contests every year, including 
> the
> > NATS.  I judge Masters class, and find that many of the FAI judges 
> sitting
> > with me don't know the rules to judge it.
> >
> >
> > Tony Stillman
> > Radio South
> > 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
> > Pensacola, FL 32505
> > 1-800-962-7802
> >www.radiosouthrc.com
> > ----- Original Message -----
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