Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????

Ron Van Putte vanputte at cox.net
Tue Nov 11 16:00:07 AKST 2003 

On Nov 11, 2003, at 1:56 PM, <rcaerobob at cox.net> wrote:

> Certainly worthwhile, after seeing years of needless (and useless)  
> contest controversy over landings and takeoffs.  The objective of the  
> game is FLIGHT.
>
> LET's contact those Contest Board members and support this  
> proposal....Which number is it,Ron???

Check out http://www.radiosouthrc.com/rulesproposal.htm and look at  
RCA05-05

Ron Van Putte

>
>>
>> From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
>> Date: 2003/11/11 Tue PM 03:53:33 EST
>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>> Subject: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
>>
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2003, at 8:30 AM, John Ferrell wrote:
>>
>>> One of my pet peeves:
>>>     Just where and what does the rule book say about judging attitude
>>> on landings? Its still track and that is not judged until the final 2
>>> meters!
>>>  
>>> He who does not keep a wing low into a crosswind on landings needs
>>> more airplanes.
>>>  
>>> I am beginning to see the logic in FAI scoring: We cannot seem to get
>>> the judges to score To & L's properly, so lets concentrate on flying.
>>> I will back off on my earlier suggestion to make them each a K4.  
>>> After
>>> reading this thread I am now favor of ignoring everything that is not
>>> bracketed by "in the box" & "out of the box".
>>>  
>>> If there is this much confusion among this group there is little hope
>>> at a contest.
>>>  
>>> I have never seen it done, but as I read the rule book the AMA pilot
>>> could realize over the threshhold at 50 feet or so that things are
>>> sour with this approach. Could he not make an abrupt circle out into
>>> the flight area and try again WITHOUT PENALTY if he does not pass in
>>> front of the judges?
>>>  
>>>
>>
>> There is a rule change proposal to score takeoffs and landings 1 or  
>> 10.
>>   Let's get behind it and let our district's' contest board members  
>> know
>> how we feel.
>>
>> Ron Van Putte
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Del Rykert
>>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>> Sent:Tuesday, November 11, 2003 1:35 PM
>>> Subject:Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
>>>
>>> all true but I've rarely seen a pilot slip to landing smoothly. I can
>>> only think of one time I've seen it and I wasn't judging and don't
>>> know how he scored but I felt he deserved a decent score from my
>>> viewing angle.
>>>  
>>>     Del
>>>  
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Henderson,Eric
>>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>> Sent:Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:43 AM
>>> Subject:RE: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
>>>
>>> AMA rules state you can side slip:-
>>>
>>> The landing will not be downgraded if:
>>>  
>>> 3.The pilot elects to "slip to a landing," to handle
>>> a crosswind condition, in which case the
>>> upwind wing will be low.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Eric.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From:discussion-request at nsrca.org
>>> [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf  
>>> Ofchadnortheast at shaw.ca
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 9:29 AM
>>> To:discussion at nsrca.org
>>> Subject: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
>>>
>>>
>>> He flies FAI anyway, I doubt it hurts the scores much :)
>>>
>>> Besides where does it say you cant slip?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: mike mueller <mups1953 at yahoo.com>
>>> Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 7:20 am
>>> Subject: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
>>>
>>>> Exactly when are you supposed to start judging the landing? If
>>>> you stop the slip before 6 feet off the ground then it shouldn't
>>>> effect the judge. I guess after so many years of flying I can tell
>>>> you that I'm a little tired of the judges and there petty
>>>> preferences that shouldn't come into play. But hey that won't
>>>> change things so I guess I'll learn to deal with it. Mike
>>>>
>>>> Del Rykert <drykert at rochester.rr.com> wrote:Might be more fun but
>>>> doesn't help your score because it don't impress the judges.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Adam Glatt
>>>> To:discussion at nsrca.org
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 8:59 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Side slipping is more fun =>
>>>>
>>>> From: "Larry Diamond" <jed241 at msn.com>
>>>>
>>>>>> Reply-To:discussion at nsrca.org
>>>>>> To: "NSRCA" <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
>>>>>> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:19:33 -0500
>>>>>>
>>>>>> OK...Maybe I'm loosing my mind...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I had a conversation with an individual that told me I was wrong
>>>> and that
>>>>>> we don't use nor will ever use spoilers for a pattern plane.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do have at least one e-mail referencing that some folks in New
>>>> Jersey
>>>>>> have tinkered with this. I seem to recall a number of posts but
>>>> I can' find
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I would like to do, is take the responses (Good / Bad) from
>>>> this
>>>>>> thread to form my own opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have never tried it. But I think it was advise I received from
>>>> a thread
>>>>>> on trying to control the speed of my landings for short runways.
>>>> But I
>>>>>> really don't recall all the points...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then again, perhaps I have lost my mind...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See ya,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>>    
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =====================================
>>>> # To be removed from this list, send a message to
>>>> #discussion-request at nsrca.org
>>>> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
>>>> #
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------
>>>> Do you Yahoo!?
>>>> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
>>>
>>> =====================================
>>> # To be removed from this list, send a message to
>>> #discussion-request at nsrca.org
>>> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
>>> #
>>>
>>> ============# To be removed from this list, send a message to
>>> #discussion-request at nsrca.org
>>> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
>>> #
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2003, at 8:30 AM, John Ferrell wrote:
>>
>>
>> <excerpt><smaller>One of my pet peeves:</smaller>
>>
>> <smaller>    Just where and what does the rule book say about judging
>> attitude on landings? Its still track and that is not judged until the
>> final 2 meters!</smaller>
>>
>>  
>>
>> <smaller>He who does not keep a wing low into a crosswind on landings
>> needs more airplanes.</smaller>
>>
>>  
>>
>> <smaller>I am beginning to see the logic in FAI scoring: We cannot
>> seem to get the judges to score To & L's properly, so lets concentrate
>> on flying. I will back off on my earlier suggestion to make them each
>> a K4. After reading this thread I am now favor of ignoring everything
>> that is not bracketed by "in the box" & "out of the box".</smaller>
>>
>>  
>>
>> <smaller>If there is this much confusion among this group there is
>> little hope at a contest.</smaller>
>>
>>  
>>
>> <smaller>I have never seen it done, but as I read the rule book the
>> AMA pilot could realize over the threshhold at 50 feet or so that
>> things are sour with this approach. Could he not make an abrupt circle
>> out into the flight area and try again WITHOUT PENALTY if he does not
>> pass in front of the judges?</smaller>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>> </excerpt>
>>
>> There is a rule change proposal to score takeoffs and landings 1 or
>> 10.  Let's get behind it and let our district's' contest board members
>> know how we feel.
>>
>>
>> Ron Van Putte
>>
>>
>> <excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger>----- Original
>> Message -----</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
>>
>> <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger>From:</x-tad- 
>> bigger></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad- 
>> bigger>
>> </x-tad-bigger><color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param><x-tad-bigger>Del
>> Rykert</x-tad-bigger></color><x-tad-bigger>  
>> </x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
>>
>> <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger>To:</x-tad- 
>> bigger></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad- 
>> bigger>
>> </x-tad-bigger><color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param><x-tad- 
>> bigger>discussion at nsrca.org</x-tad-bigger></color><x-tad-bigger>  
>> </x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
>>
>> <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger>Sent:</x-tad- 
>> bigger></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad- 
>> bigger>Tuesday,
>> November 11, 2003 1:35 PM</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
>>
>> <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger>Subject:</x-tad- 
>> bigger></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad- 
>> bigger>Re:
>> Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
>>
>>
>> <bold><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param>all true but I've rarely
>> seen a pilot slip to landing smoothly. I can only think of one time
>> I've seen it and I wasn't judging and don't know how he scored but I
>> felt he deserved a decent score from my viewing angle.</color></bold>
>>
>>  
>>
>> <bold><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param>    Del</color></bold>
>>
>>  
>>
>> <fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger>----- Original Message
>> -----</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
>>
>> <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger>From:</x-tad- 
>> bigger></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad- 
>> bigger>
>> </x-tad-bigger><color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param><x-tad- 
>> bigger>Henderson,Eric</x-tad-bigger></color><x-tad-bigger>  
>> </x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
>>
>> <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger>To:</x-tad- 
>> bigger></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad- 
>> bigger>
>> </x-tad-bigger><color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param><x-tad- 
>> bigger>discussion at nsrca.org</x-tad-bigger></color><x-tad-bigger>  
>> </x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
>>
>> <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger>Sent:</x-tad- 
>> bigger></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad- 
>> bigger>Tuesday,
>> November 11, 2003 6:43 AM</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
>>
>> <bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad-bigger>Subject:</x-tad- 
>> bigger></fontfamily></bold><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><x-tad- 
>> bigger>RE:
>> Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????</x-tad-bigger></fontfamily>
>>
>>
>> AMA rules state you can side slip:-
>>
>>
>> The landing will not be downgraded if:
>>
>>  
>>
>> 3.The pilot elects to "slip to a landing," to handle
>>
>> a crosswind condition, in which case the
>>
>> upwind wing will be low.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Eric.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From:<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param>discussion- 
>> request at nsrca.org</color>
>>
>> [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf
>> Of<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param>chadnortheast at shaw.ca</color>
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 9:29 AM
>>
>> To:<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param>discussion at nsrca.org</color>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
>>
>>
>>
>> He flies FAI anyway, I doubt it hurts the scores much :)
>>
>>
>> Besides where does it say you cant slip?
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: mike mueller
>> <<<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param>mups1953 at yahoo.com</color>>
>>
>> Date: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 7:20 am
>>
>> Subject: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
>>
>>
>>> Exactly when are you supposed to start judging the landing? If
>>
>>> you stop the slip before 6 feet off the ground then it shouldn't
>>
>>> effect the judge. I guess after so many years of flying I can tell
>>
>>> you that I'm a little tired of the judges and there petty
>>
>>> preferences that shouldn't come into play. But hey that won't
>>
>>> change things so I guess I'll learn to deal with it. Mike
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Del Rykert
>> <<<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param>drykert at rochester.rr.com</ 
>> color>>
>> wrote:Might be more fun but
>>
>>> doesn't help your score because it don't impress the judges.
>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>> From: Adam Glatt
>>
>>> To:<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param>discussion at nsrca.org</color>
>>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 8:59 PM
>>
>>> Subject: Re: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Side slipping is more fun =>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> From: "Larry Diamond"
>> <<<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param>jed241 at msn.com</color>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> Reply-To:<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</ 
>>>>> param>discussion at nsrca.org</color>
>>
>>>>> To: "NSRCA"
>> <<<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param>discussion at nsrca.org</color>>
>>
>>>>> Subject: Spoilers for Pattern Planes?????
>>
>>>>> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:19:33 -0500
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> OK...Maybe I'm loosing my mind...
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> I had a conversation with an individual that told me I was wrong
>>
>>> and that
>>
>>>>> we don't use nor will ever use spoilers for a pattern plane.
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> I do have at least one e-mail referencing that some folks in New
>>
>>> Jersey
>>
>>>>> have tinkered with this. I seem to recall a number of posts but
>>
>>> I can' find
>>
>>>>> them.
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> What I would like to do, is take the responses (Good / Bad) from
>>
>>> this
>>
>>>>> thread to form my own opinion.
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> I have never tried it. But I think it was advise I received from
>>
>>> a thread
>>
>>>>> on trying to control the speed of my landings for short runways.
>>
>>> But I
>>
>>>>> really don't recall all the points...
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> Then again, perhaps I have lost my mind...
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> See ya,
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> Larry
>>
>>>>>    
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> =====================================
>>
>>> # To be removed from this list, send a message to
>>
>>> #<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param>discussion-request at nsrca.org</ 
>>> color>
>>
>>> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
>>
>>> #
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> ---------------------------------
>>
>>> Do you Yahoo!?
>>
>>> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
>>
>>
>> =====================================
>>
>> # To be removed from this list, send a message to
>>
>> #<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param>discussion-request at nsrca.org</ 
>> color>
>>
>> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
>>
>> #
>>
>>
>> ============# To be removed from this list, send a message to
>>
>> #<color><param>0000,0000,EEEE</param>discussion-request at nsrca.org</ 
>> color>
>>
>> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
>>
>> #
>>
>>
>> </excerpt>
>>
>
> Bob Pastorello, El Reno, OK, USA
> rcaerobob at cox.net
> www.rcaerobats.net
>
> ====================================# To be removed from this list,  
> send a message to
> # discussion-request at nsrca.org
> # and put leave discussion on the first line of the body.
> #
>

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