Team Trials

[wgalligan]

You guys both make good and valid points...

I just happen to like building. It is a great stress reliever for me and I
am gifted enough to be able to figure things out and make my ideas come to
life in the air or in a part or tool.  Some people just dont have that
abilitiy or the tools or the place to make these things.  So an ARF is thier
choice.  Its all about choice and I choose to build and fly my own and
sometimes I build for others.  Like you said Jim there are some ARF kits out
there that are oustanding in thier own right.  Thats what mass production
can do when done right... produce exact copies and/or near perfectly
constructed parts and pieces. On the other hand I have seen some ARF's that
are down right scarey to be put in the air and some kit builts too.
But I still think people should try building an airplane or two from scratch
to appreciate what really goes into the finished product.  I as an
experienced builder like to help those that are learning the skills.
Passing this on gives me great satisfaction. When I get tired of building
you will find me out at the flying gield flying any different type of
airplane. ARF's, scratch built, kit built,gliders, sport planes, pattern,
trainers and I am sure the next bug will be a helicopter...who knows?

I'm havin fun....  :-)
Smooth FLying...

Wayne G.

-----Original Message-----
From: JOddino <JOddino at socal.rr.com>
To: discussion at nsrca.org <discussion at nsrca.org>
Date: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: Team Trials


>Hi Dennis,
>You make sport flyer sound like a bad thing or maybe I'm over reacting.  I
>am a sport flyer if that means I fly to have fun.  I also assert that
>everyone is a pattern flyer, because that is what we all do, we put our
>planes through a series of maneuvers.  Some do it better than others and
>some put it all together in a preprogrammed sequence.  When I fly I do a
>preprogrammed pattern, sometimes a SCAT sequence and some times an AMA
>masters sequence. If they let me fly my two meter GP PW Extra, the plane I
>have fun with, in a pattern contest, I'd try that too.
>Until a few years ago I did the FAI sequence.  In the old days I chased all
>over the country to compete and had a lot of fun.  I met some great people
>and miss not seeing them.
>There will always be a few folks flying R/C pattern just like control line
>but you will never get the masses like we did in the old days.  Pattern is
>like jazz.  At one time 80% of the music played in the US was jazz.  You
can
>still find people playing it but it is not the mainstream.  Same with
>pattern.
>You can keep trying to expand pattern flying but don't feel bad if you
don't
>capture the same percentage we had in the old days.  Just enjoy what you
>have and quit wishing for something else.
>By the way there isn't more than a handful of people if that many who can
>build an airframe as good as the Composite-ARF (formerly FiberClassics) I
>just bought.  If they or anyone else built a pattern plane that good they
>would dominate the event just like they did the TOC.  I like to build now
>and then but if I can buy a better airplane for less money I'd be smart to
>buy my competition plane and build my sport plane.
>Anyway I was just tickling the dragon trying to get a reaction so it is
okay
>if you attack my observations.  I know that Dean wasn't looking down on
>people who flew ARFs.
>Jim
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dennis Cone" <cone.man at verizon.net>
>To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 6:41 PM
>Subject: RE: Team Trials
>
>
>> Don't take this as a personal attack but you reflect the vary reason we
>have
>> the indifference to pattern that most sport fliers have. It has become
the
>> trend today that if it is not an ARF then it is too much trouble to
build.
>I
>> for one will never have anyone other than myself build my planes and will
>> never own an ARF. We need to make sure we never rescind from the basics
of
>> building. This is where the understanding of building,  and the
>> understanding of how an airplane works come from. I really don't care
what
>> type of engine a person uses and I try to emphasize the importance of
>> building from at least a kit to my students so they will understand these
>> basics. While it is valuable to provide an ARF type kit to the folks who
>do
>> not understand how to build or do not want to, it is also important to
>make
>> sure we do not dilute this sport with too many ARF'S. We are a group of
>> precision builders and fliers and the level of competition we enjoy
>reflects
>> this. Jim, you sound like a sport flier. Perhaps I am off in LA-LA land
>but
>> this is how I see it.
>>
>> Dennis Cone
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On
>> Behalf Of JOddino
>> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 6:03 PM
>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>> Subject: Re: Team Trials
>>
>> Hi Dean,
>> You triggered me with that, "aim it at the ARFer...".  I'm not sure how
to
>> react now that I am an ARFer.  Even worse I'm an ARFer with gas engines.
>I
>> can tell you a couple of things, I am more enthused now than I have been
>for
>> a long time.  I'm even going to a SCAT contest this weekend.  I heard
they
>> have 40 pre-registered.  I see a trend that allows many folks to become
>top
>> rate pilots at a relatively low cost of time and money.  In fact it is so
>> low an investment ($400 for the plane and $550 for the engine) I am
>> comfortable flying it at Sepulveda Basin.  The DA50 is great.  No messing
>> with the needles after you find the settings, no fooling with tuned
pipes,
>> headers, bearings, glow plugs and drivers, starters, etc.  No worrying
>about
>> weight or noise.  All you do is charge the batteries and fill the tank
and
>> fly.  And the plane is easy to fly with its excess thrust and higher
drag.
>> I'm so happy I took the next step and bought a Composite-ARF 2.6M Extra
>and
>> a DA100.  You couldn't come close to building a nicer airframe for $1240,
>> it's even painted in the mold.  I've always wanted a perfectly straight
>> airframe and this is as close as I will ever have.
>> I'd be inclined to somehow embrace the ARFs and ARFers because they are
>here
>> to stay.  You will have a difficult time to get people to put in the
>effort
>> to compete in pattern unless they can buy an ARF and look good flying it
>in
>> very little time.
>> Maybe I'm just getting lazy or realize I don't have that much time left
>but
>> I don't see me ever building another pattern plane unless it is an ARF.
>> My thought of the day.
>> Jim
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dean Pappas" <d.pappas at kodeos.com>
>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 10:24 AM
>> Subject: RE: Team Trials
>>
>>
>> Hi George,
>> That was a real part of my non-argument with Bob H. (remember he's one of
>> us)
>> An Academy is supposed to be a place dedicated to education and
>excellence.
>> Wanna fix it? Then we need to educate.
>> Write a good technical article, submit it to any mag, aim it at the
ARFer,
>> and uplift him just one little bit.
>> Teach him a tiny little something at the field (without his figuring out
>> that he's being
>> dragged out of the great big "lowest common denominator".
>> The only difference between what I just said, and the world-view that I
>(and
>> many of you)
>> held up until a short while ago, is that the AMA and the house organ
isn't
>> doing it for us.
>> They won't hinder us either! Any magazine will gratefully accept good
>> technical stuff,
>> especially if it is written so as to connect with the majority.
>> You know, there are less widely read magazines that eschew the lowest
>common
>> denominator!
>> I'll stop there before being accused of a sales pitch.
>>
>> Less bewildered and more resolved,
>> Dean
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: GeorgeF. [mailto:av8tor at flash.net]
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 12:13 PM
>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>> Subject: Re: Team Trials
>>
>>
>>
>> >Hi Tony, Hi All,
>> >
>> >Tony, when you said that, "AMA didn't even think it important enough to
>> >cover in Model Aviation...", something inside me twinged. So I called
>dear
>> >friend Bob Hunt(the editor at MA) and asked him if there was to be even
>> >cursory coverage. Realize that the man I'm talking to is a World
Champion
>> >in Control-Line Aerobatics, and still a competitor ... His voice
saddened
>> >and he told me that the policy at MA is that no team trials are covered,
>> >lest they all have to be covered. Every time something about competition
>> >is covered, droves of readers write in to complain. After every December
>> >issue (the NATs coverage issue) they are barraged with complaints about
>> >the the waste of magazine space. World championships might get coverage,
>> >if they happen in the U.S.! The mediocre have censored coverage of
>> >excellence. Don't hassle Bob, he is one of us!
>> >
>> >O.K., for homework, everyone go (re)read Ray Bradbury's "Fahrenheit
451".
>> >
>> >Bewildered,
>> >     Dean Pappas
>>
>>
>> Isn't part of the AMA's mission to promote all forms of Model
>> Aviation?  Isn't competition part of Model Aviation?   Seems like by not
>> covering competition you're not promoting and advancement of model
>> aviation.  In this case everyone looses from the hard core competitor to
>> the sport flier and the park fliers.....
>>
>> George
>>
>>
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