Contestant Judging was Calling Maneuvers for Judges

[jed241 at msn.com]

After this past week of seeing all these post spin off of the one I started, I think I'm going to think twice about instigating a debate...<VBG>

I went back and read my initial post and it said twice that my whole intent was to start trouble...Never knowing how successful I might be...

The next time I see an e-mail that says it's too quite...I may sit back and let it be quite, but then again...I've been entertained all week long...<VBG>

In all seriousness, I too am a newbie and have read most of the post. It is very interesting to see all the various opinions and debate, yet have so much fun at a contest...

On my way to Muncie in the morning...Hope to meet some new faces...If your judging Sportsman, bring a hard hat. Tom might be passing the hat for having maneuvers named after him. Still haven't thought of the politically correct Double-I variation I performed in Dayton. I think they gave me 7's for creativity...

Tom W. I look forward to meeting you...Only took three years to get me started...

Larry
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Gray E Fowler 
  To: discussion at nsrca.org 
  Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 1:55 PM
  Subject: Re: Contestant Judging was Calling Maneuvers for Judges



  Allan 

  Sounds good, does that work? The fact that the locals will sit thru two days of judging is amazing. Have you actually had people start flying because they judged? I would never advocate excluding a local with interest, but I think their skill level is best suited for Sportsman and perhaps Intermediate simply because the judge load is so much lower. I fly Advanced and I do not have it totally memorized. Think about someone who does not fly pattern at all....one time you see a stall turn without a half roll, next time with a half roll, then a bunt with a half roll and a double immalmen with a full roll-sure looks the same and can get confusing. Do the locals really take the time needed to become a good judge? We as flyers constantly discuss such judging while sitting around not flying -to the point of overkill, but we learn it if nothing but from maximum exposure. 
  If I had a local that showed interest I think I would make him fly Sportsman instead of judging. Ron Barr had 9 Sportsman last weekend.



  Gray Fowler
  Principal Chemical Engineer
  Composites Engineering 


       AWorrest at aol.com 
        Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org 
        06/12/2003 12:42 PM 
        Please respond to discussion 

               
                To:        discussion at nsrca.org 
                cc:         
                Subject:        Contestant Judging was Calling Maneuvers for Judges 



  Gray and all, 

  I am going to play Devil's advocate.  If the sole purpose of a pattern contest is for the benefit of the flyers, then contestant judging is the way to go.  But as a former CD, let me assure you there are more reasons than this one for holding a pattern contest.  As important it is to provide a fair venue for the contestants, a contest can also serve as a way to get new blood into the sport. 

  Using contestant judging exclusively closes one door for introducing new people into pattern.  If we exclude non-pattern fliers from participation, pattern will wither and die.  I was introduced into pattern first as a scribe, then as a judge.  After judging a few contests, I decided I could fly as well as some of those who were flying and entered my first contest. 

  As a CD I believed it was important to involve non-pattern fliers in a pattern contest.  I even strong-armed some reluctant club members into judging.  Good judging is the goal so training is essential.  People should not be asked to judge classes beyond their ability.  A good mix of contestant and non-contestant judges is necessary to keep the sport healthy. 

  Allan Worrest 

  In a message dated 6/12/2003 11:29:08 AM Central Daylight Time, gfowler at raytheon.com writes: 


  Tony 

  I was the one flying when this happened. When I heard the judge say " isn't he supposed to be inverted" both myself and my caller Lance said "no" in unison. During the flight I think two more judge "questions" arose where upon I almost missed a downwind centered maneuver because my caller was again straightening out judge confusion. Frankly I felt like landing. I really do not know how this could have been fixed after the fact unless I re-flew the entire pattern.  Considering that I am a very bad Advanced guy I am no where near winning anything  so it did not matter. To alleviate this problem on the next rounds both myself and Lance started calling out the entire  maneuver loud enough for the judges to know that there is both a stall turn with and without half rolls and when I was supposed to be inverted. 
  These judges were club guys who got the intense training session prior to the contest. They were trying their best to do it right, and were just confused-no reason to get mad. What I think this underscores the most is that we as Pattern dudes are by far the most qualified to judge ourselves, yet no one wants to judge- or it appears no one wants to judge at the contests, yet we are willing to let the local sport flyers give us all 8 ,9 and 10's no matter how bad it is, not know when to zero, look down during the maneuver, etc. 
  Here's a vote for contestant judging! .... 

  Gray Fowler 
  Principal Chemical Engineer 
  Composites Engineering 


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