Wrong Maneuver issues

Wed Jun 11 07:05:43 AKDT 2003

These last two posts exemplify several reasons for having a scribe.  The
scribe can call the maneuvers for you, and allows you to keep your eyes on
the plane.  Many times, including this year, you can watch judges habitually
miss nearly every exit and entry of maneuvers while they are writing down
scores.

Jim W.

-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Abdullah [mailto:aabdu at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 7:11 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: RE: Wrong Maneuver issues

Mark makes a good point. Just as most pilots are rusty at the beginning of
the season, so are most judges. As the year wears on a manuever that would
get an 8.5 in May might get a 7.  Not because of a description or rule
change, but because the judging gets sharper. Make all of your mistakes
early in the season as it will get a lot harder to get away with them later
in the year. Fortunately your flying will get better as the judging gets
tougher so it is all pretty much a wash anyway.

That is one of the problems with contestant / human judging. I now have a
product to add to my wish list with the YS140/160 2 stroke. A holographic
scoring program projected into the sky HUD style that can automatically
judge each manuever flown against a rule book template. It would allow for
different styles of flying, adjust for manuever size, and have correct
geometry programmed in. Of course it would normalize flight scores after
each round.

"Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com> wrote:

I know we joke about it a lot, but it's a difficult issue. It's hard to
memorize 5 sets of schedules...especially the more complicated ones. Until
recently, most of the more advanced pilots had been through the lower ranks
with the same schedules...they hadn't changed in many years. After having
flown the sportsman, advanced, and masters sequences literally a thousand
times, it was unlikely that I would forget the sequence. Made them easy to
judge without effort. 

But now, the sequences are all new to all of us. Unless you're very
diligent, which is often NOT the case at a local spring contest, it's easy
for the judges to judge the maneuver flown, rather then the one required.
This is especially true of similar manuevers...1/2 square with 1/2 roll
rather than 1/2 square with 2/4...or your 1/2 cuban rather than 1/2 reverse
cuban etc.

You'll find fewer and fewer errors as the summer progresses and as the
manuevers become more familiar to everyone. 

Still...best to be quiet. Bob P. managed to fly an inside-inside cuban eight
with 1 1/2 rolls rather than an inside-outside cuban with full rolls in
masters at the '99 nats and got 8's from all 4 judges...not the best
endorsement.

-M

-----Original Message-----
From: jed241 at msn.com [mailto:jed241 at msn.com]
Sent: Tue 6/10/2003 6:30 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Cc: 
Subject: Re: Wrong Maneuver issues

Mark,

Do you think if I did a 1/2 Reverse Cuban 8 after the straight flight back
instead of the correct 1/2 Cuban 8 again, the judges might have missed
it...Oh, I remember...They marked it zero when I said "oh shoot"... I was
pretty proud of that scribbled out 8 though...ha...

Larry
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Atwood, Mark 
To: discussion at nsrca.org 
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 12:01 PM
Subject: RE: Wrong Maneuver issues

I'll go back to my previous statement...I'm a huge advocate of "benefit of
the doubt"...which means if I know the manuever they're trying to fly, then
it's "recognized" and I would award the downgrade, not a zero. Lord knows
we'd be handing out zeros continuously in sportsman otherwise. 

I only use the "unrecognizable manuever" zero when it's so bad that the
manuever would be a zero if I did recognize it....

Take the double Weedon for example :) VBG...sorry Tom...couldn't help
myself.
-----Original Message-----
From: Henderson,Eric [mailto:Eric.Henderson at gartner.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:51 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Wrong Maneuver issues

The example below is clearly the wrong maneuver, but what about a top-hat
where the pilot does not draw a straight line on the top. It looks just like
a Humpty so do you zero for unrecognizable maneuver, or down-grade 2-4
points???

E.

-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On
Behalf Of WHIP23 at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:28 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: Scoring Vs Judging

In a message dated 6/10/03 8:20:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
gfowler at raytheon.com writes:

Yeah but if you 1/2 rolled on the way up, pushed over the top, then no roll
would be required on the down leg....

I agree the issue is that the 1/2 roll must be on the up line, the zero was
for a 1/2 roll on the way down, not a legal variation per the rule book.

Bob 

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