Judging behaviour

Thu Jan 23 08:20:15 AKST 2003

Interesting thread......  
If I'm judging and the other judge states and opinion or observance, to the
flyer, or just to me, I usually say that we shouldn't talk about it until
after the round, unless they say something like, "nice flight," or "good
flight", or other non-critical generalities.  Or the pilot says, "I know I
zeroed the spin or snap" and thus, starts the conversation.

As far as influencing another judge goes::::::  How about this angle:::::
One flyer knows who the upcoming judges will be for the next round, OR, who
are "habitual/likely" judges for a Masters round.  This flyer watches the
other Masters flyer's early rounds and "bad-mouths" their flying style to
the habitual/likely upcoming master judge by saying things like, "... he's
just flying full throttle, way too fast," or " hes flying way too far out
(in disgust)"  (reader, don't laugh yet).

Witnessing the drama as a by-stander, the upcoming round is started with the
habitual/likely judges, and the flyer lands (person who won earlier rounds
but was also bad-mouthed) and comes back and says, "...judge X said that I
was flying way too fast and too far out."  Instead of winning this round,
magically, he comes in third or so.  Upon commencement of the NEXT round
with different judge, this flyer (who flew consistently the same for each
round) is now back at the top.

If your going to judge, remeber the judging code of ethics.  Don't listen to
other people complaining or whatever, give every pilot in each class the
benefit of a fresh start (each maneuver, each round, each contest.).
Jim W.

James R. Woodward
Test Operations
Project Manager
Work:(661) 275-6549
Fax: (661) 277-0199 

-----Original Message-----
From: s.vannostrand at kodak.com [mailto:s.vannostrand at kodak.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 7:05 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: Judging behaviour

There's a number of interesting side issues here, but I'd like to ask the
group how you feel about feedback. 

Personally, I am thankful and gracious to get feedback from any judge about
my performance at any time.  I even ask my friends and off duty judges to
judge my flight on occasion.  One contest is worth 20 practice sessions.
However, giving feedback is a touchier business.  Not everyone feels the way
I do.  It's common in our district for judges to comment after a flight (if
there's time) but not so common it's expected.  After some experiences
following suit, I changed during last season. Although I'd like to comment,
in the spirit of helping my fellow pilot, I refrain for the most part.
Exceptions: first contest fliers that are learning the ropes and close
friends that I know well and I know appreciate it.  On others, I will place
some cryptic notes next to the score to indicate my feedback.  Often the
pilot will come by after the round and we can talk in a more relaxed
atmosphere and I can feel out ! how best to speak.  THis only seems to work
for Advanced class on down, since the upper class's maneuvers come too close
together to make extra notes. 
  THis seemed to work well, but it was a bit of a unique approach and I
wondered if you all think this is a good or bad idea? 

--Lance 

	"Rick Wallace" <rickwallace45 at hotmail.com> 
Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org 

01/23/2003 04:41 AM 
Please respond to discussion 

        To:        discussion at nsrca.org 
        cc:         
        Subject:        Re: Judging behaviour	

I'm a fairly new pattern pilot, and welcome the comments of more experienced
pilots anytime I can get 'em, especially since they're  pilots too, and are
virtually always more experienced than I am.

I look at immediate post-flight conversation w/ the judges as a way to
improve my flying. I'll routinely turn to the judges after I land and ask
them for their comments.
Sometimes they'll let me know that they'd rather not comment, and I thank
them and leave. Often, though, one or more will be willing to give his
impressions and perceptions of the flight - this can be as valuable as any
other input.

Of course, if the next guy already has his engine running, and is waiting to
step into the box then there's no discussion- -it's his flight line.
Otherwise, why not get the mini-critique?

By the same token when I judge, when a competitor *asks* for feedback (and
only then) after his flight, I'll give it (usually deferring to the more
senior judge if there is one) when there's time before the next pilot's up.
I trust the other judge not to be influenced (not to be swayed in his
judgiung the rest of the round) by my comments, as I try not to be swayed by
his comments.

We pattern guys don't fly together enough as it is, and should take max
advantage of the chances to help each other and to be helped.

My $.02 -
Rick

>
>I recently attended a competition in which the conduct of a particular
>judge
>left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. As I turned towards the judges
>after
>completing my flight this particular person (experienced F3A judge) made a
>number of comments about my flight being flown too far out and that he
>docked several points per manoeuvre. These comments were made in the
>presence of the other two judges.
>
>I am not going to argue that I was or wasn't. The concern I had with this
>behaviour was he could have influenced the other judges to think the same
>as
>they had less experience. This type of conduct should not be allowed to
>happen. Judges should be able to judge a flight based on their own
>perception and interpretation of rules etc. If this particular person
>thought that I should be docked 2 points per manoeuvre then that should be
>his opinion only.
>
>The issue here is that most of us on this list judge and fly aerobatics.
>Everyone deserves to be judged fairly and unbiased by people who have their
>own perception on how a flight should look and should be flown. Why have 3
>or 5 judges?
>
>If you looked at this incident from another angle some of my competitors
>may
>say that I was being coached by a judge which could raise another set of
>problems.
>
>All in all, the fact he said anything was wrong.
>
>Just my thoughts
>
>Peter
>
>

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