Judging behaviour

Thu Jan 23 08:18:25 AKST 2003

I too write stuff like "c " for out of center or" B" for box 
violation-when I can because I always appreciated that when I was in the 
"lower classes"  ( I can safely use that term on other people now that I 
am a "bad" Advanced kinda of a guy).  Frankly I would be happy if a judge 
told me I was too far out, and I do not see the harm in it. The round is 
over and if I get in front of that  judge again (most contstests slim 
chance-ONLY at the Nats is a lower classman subject to repeat judges) I 
would not want to make that mistake again.  And then there is the 
"unmentionable" situation. Face it, being judged at a pattern contest is 
exactly like getting good grades at college. Good students quickly learn 
what the professor wants-right or wrong , and then the student 
regurgetates it back in test form for that wonderful "A".  Now you could 
argue the point with yourself, disagreeing with your professor on the 
finer points of underwater basket weaving, and write your answer that way 
you know is 100% right and get a C or just fly that square loop like you 
know the judge behind you THINKS it should be done and get an A. 
It is a deeper problem that cannot be rectified-during YOUR flight and the 
glorious pursuit of "one more wood plaque" or in the case of many -a 
plaque. 

On another note, my Blotus notes spellchecker must hate "proper" english 
as it thinks "behaviour" should be "behavior". Anyone care to score this?

Gray Fowler
Principal Chemical Engineer
Composites Engineering

s.vannostrand at kodak.com
Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org
01/23/2003 09:05 AM
Please respond to discussion

        To:     discussion at nsrca.org
        cc: 
        Subject:        Re: Judging behaviour

There's a number of interesting side issues here, but I'd like to ask the 
group how you feel about feedback. 

Personally, I am thankful and gracious to get feedback from any judge 
about my performance at any time.  I even ask my friends and off duty 
judges to judge my flight on occasion.  One contest is worth 20 practice 
sessions. However, giving feedback is a touchier business.  Not everyone 
feels the way I do.  It's common in our district for judges to comment 
after a flight (if there's time) but not so common it's expected.  After 
some experiences following suit, I changed during last season. Although 
I'd like to comment, in the spirit of helping my fellow pilot, I refrain 
for the most part.  Exceptions: first contest fliers that are learning the 
ropes and close friends that I know well and I know appreciate it.  On 
others, I will place some cryptic notes next to the score to indicate my 
feedback.  Often the pilot will come by after the round and we can talk in 
a more relaxed atmosphere and I can feel out ! how best to speak.  THis 
only seems to work for Advanced class on down, since the upper class's 
maneuvers come too close together to make extra notes. 
  THis seemed to work well, but it was a bit of a unique approach and I 
wondered if you all think this is a good or bad idea? 

--Lance 

"Rick Wallace" <rickwallace45 at hotmail.com> 
Sent by: discussion-request at nsrca.org 
01/23/2003 04:41 AM 
Please respond to discussion 

        To:        discussion at nsrca.org 
        cc:         
        Subject:        Re: Judging behaviour

I'm a fairly new pattern pilot, and welcome the comments of more 
experienced
pilots anytime I can get 'em, especially since they're  pilots too, and 
are
virtually always more experienced than I am.

I look at immediate post-flight conversation w/ the judges as a way to
improve my flying. I'll routinely turn to the judges after I land and ask
them for their comments.
Sometimes they'll let me know that they'd rather not comment, and I thank
them and leave. Often, though, one or more will be willing to give his
impressions and perceptions of the flight - this can be as valuable as any
other input.

Of course, if the next guy already has his engine running, and is waiting 
to
step into the box then there's no discussion- -it's his flight line.
Otherwise, why not get the mini-critique?

By the same token when I judge, when a competitor *asks* for feedback (and
only then) after his flight, I'll give it (usually deferring to the more
senior judge if there is one) when there's time before the next pilot's 
up.
I trust the other judge not to be influenced (not to be swayed in his
judgiung the rest of the round) by my comments, as I try not to be swayed 
by
his comments.

We pattern guys don't fly together enough as it is, and should take max
advantage of the chances to help each other and to be helped.

My $.02 -
Rick

>
>I recently attended a competition in which the conduct of a particular
>judge
>left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. As I turned towards the judges
>after
>completing my flight this particular person (experienced F3A judge) made 
a
>number of comments about my flight being flown too far out and that he
>docked several points per manoeuvre. These comments were made in the
>presence of the other two judges.
>
>I am not going to argue that I was or wasn't. The concern I had with this
>behaviour was he could have influenced the other judges to think the same
>as
>they had less experience. This type of conduct should not be allowed to
>happen. Judges should be able to judge a flight based on their own
>perception and interpretation of rules etc. If this particular person
>thought that I should be docked 2 points per manoeuvre then that should 
be
>his opinion only.
>
>The issue here is that most of us on this list judge and fly aerobatics.
>Everyone deserves to be judged fairly and unbiased by people who have 
their
>own perception on how a flight should look and should be flown. Why have 
3
>or 5 judges?
>
>If you looked at this incident from another angle some of my competitors
>may
>say that I was being coached by a judge which could raise another set of
>problems.
>
>All in all, the fact he said anything was wrong.
>
>Just my thoughts
>
>Peter
>
>

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