Electrics - Cost is not as bad as it appears

[Rick Kent]

Dan,

Your point about added complexity and high initial cost is well taken. As an
aside...the battery cooler I referred to can be made for less than $10 in
parts (or possibly from your junk box for $0) and 20 minutes' time, tops.
As for a charging battery, this is a nice-to-have item, but not an absolute
necessity. Many guys charge from their car/truck battery (like me, away from
my home field), with the engine running for big packs (which I don't have
many of). Not the ideal choice, but a choice. Some just bring a deep-cycle
battery in the trunk, and leave it in there and charge with the trunk open.
You can buy handtrucks and such for lugging them around, but that adds cost
and effort. I am also a bit sticker-shocked at the co$t of large LiPo packs
and their chargers too. I join the ranks of those waiting for them to drop
some. Smaller LiPos are pretty reasonable, however, if you like smaller
aircraft.
  I am fortunate to have 110 vAC outlets available to me at my home field,
conveniently located near the setup tables. No battery needed-I just bring
along my Pyramid DC power supply, plug it in, plug in my charger to it and
I'm all set.
  As for me, I am flying a mix of IC and electric. I have enough packs for
my smaller and mid-size aircraft that I can have 3 or 4 fully charged
(mostly non-LiPo) packs per plane at the field. Between these and the IC
plane, it keeps me airborne all day, and depending on how many times I fly
the e-planes, may not even have to charge anything at all. But, I'll usually
give the 2600mAH NiMH packs a topoff charge to warm them up before a flight,
since they perform a lot better warm.
I'd be the among the last ones to say "give up glow power", as I firmly
believe it will be a viable and popular power source for a long time to
come. I have a significant investment in engines, pipes, IC airframes, and
various IC accessories myself. But, there is a lot to be said for electric
power. It has really come a long way. It just takes a little bit of a
paradigm shift in one's thinking to appreciate it is all. It's certainly a
fun alternative, especially in the 40-size and below airframe range.

Regards,
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Dupont" <dansy at av.eastlink.ca>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: Electrics - Cost is not as bad as it appears


> Rick....
>
> Look at it my way...not unless the price drop dramatically......and on top
> of the charger you now have add a homemade battery cooler....??
>
> I don't think that charging from your car battery is the recommended
> method...unless you want to walk or use your cell phone, so I guess now
you
> also need a full size battery....thing are never that simple, I have
> accumulated a lots of gear specifically for nitro power flight before I
> make that gear obsolete the technology will have to more affordable.
Again
> I'm in favor to electric but they haven't meet my expectation just
> yet.  Still love my 3 OS 140RX.
>
> When I race indoor car...I used a Cooler full of Ice, the battery's (in
> plastic bag) stayed in there until they were used and then return to it
for
> cool down, sometime I would recharge my best pack of the day for the final
> race inside the cooler, at home I had a 12 x 12 surface full of hole with
4
> fans under.....to cool the battery's during charge...
>
> I would not run both type since that would not be neither a saving or
> simple to manage, I'm not retired so time is often a rare thing in my
life,
> I'm also very often away from home :)
>
> Cheers Daniel D.
>
> At 13:15 8/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >Dan,
> >Look at it this way. With your current IC powered planes, you drag along
a
> >few items of field equipment and fuel and such, right? When you take your
IC
> >powered plane to the field, AND an electric powered one, the ONLY
additional
> >piece of field equipment needed to tag along is your charger. One extra
> >piece of support equipment with two types of planes isn't that bad, is
it?
> >And, that piece can stay in the parking lot by your vehicle, out of the
way,
> >to charge packs. Doesn't seem like such a huge hassle to me.  :-)
> >As for hot recharging, e-flyers generally have devices to cool spent
packs
> >to a reasonable temp before recharging, e.g. a piece of PVC drain pipe
with
> >a 12v computer PSU fan mounted in one end or similar. I've seen some car
> >guys throw spent packs into their drink coolers between races, although I
> >don't know for sure how effective that really is. These big LiPos are
> >discharging at 50-60 amps, so I doubt charging at 5-8 amps is going to
hurt
> >them a lot, heat-wise I wouldn't go from landing/taxi straight to the
> >charger, though.. The smaller LiPo packs don't even get that warm after
> >discharging.
> >Here's a forum that covers everything you ever wanted to know about
> >batteries for e-flight:
> >http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=129
> >Rick
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Daniel Dupont" <dansy at av.eastlink.ca>
> >To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> >Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 11:38 AM
> >Subject: Re: Electrics - Cost is not as bad as it appears
> >
> >
> > > Don't get me wrong, if the price come down for the battery I will give
it
> >a
> > > try for sure.  But I would hate to have only one plane on
> > > Electric.....since I would still have to carry all that gear in case I
> >need
> > > the fuel plane...:)
> > >
> > > But my understanding at this point says...you cannot recharge at the
field
> > > since the battery will already warn from the discharge cycle and I
like to
> > > fly at least 6 flights, often more....
> > >
> > > I always a spare fully charge pack for my radio, good for about 12
flights
> > > altogether.
> > >
> > > I carry all king of spare parts including complete a engine / spinner
> > > /starter / glow driver / ect.ect......since I often fly well away from
> >home
> > > about 100 miles, and I fly there because since it the most
concentrated
> > > Pattern in the Atlantic Canada.
> > >
> > > Cheers Daniel D. 2693
> > >
> > > At 10:58 8/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> > > >It's hard to imagine a flying scenario in which I'd need 4 LiPo
battery
> > > >packs at the field with me for one day's flying, with one airplane,
> > > >considering that you can get 2 to 3 flights per battery, per charge.
One
> >can
> > > >always recharge at the field. Fly your first pack out, toss it on the
> > > >charger, and fly on the second pack while #1 recharges. Unless your
> >routine
> > > >is to fly 8 to12 flights a day with one airplane, one right after the
> >other,
> > > >anything over 2 packs would be overkill IMO. And then, transmitter
> >battery
> > > >duration would begin to come into the picture.
> > > >Obviously, at the WC, one needs to be "overprepared" for any
contingency,
> > > >especially with largely new technology/equipment. In that unique
case,
> > > >multiple spares would be a good idea. I imagine JS likely has a spare
> >motor
> > > >and gearbox on hand, too. Necessary? Probably/hopefully not. But good
to
> > > >have if you toast a motor or something a long way from home.
> > > >Just my pair o' pennies' worth.
> > > >
> > > >Rick
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Daniel Dupont" <dansy at av.eastlink.ca>
> > > >To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > > >Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 4:36 PM
> > > >Subject: Re: Electrics - Cost is not as bad as it appears
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hey Lee that is for one battery pack....let add 4 more for good
> >measure
> > > > > another 3000.00....if Jason has let say 7 pack with him at 750.00
that
> > > > > would be another $5250.00 of Battery's, pretty bad as far I'm
concern,
> >the
> > > > > price of Batteries would have to come down significantly.  Also
what
> >the
> > > > > manufacturer say about life expectancy could be different then
what
> > > > > actually happen to the packs, having race indoor cars for quite a
few
> > > >years
> > > > > one learn that battery's are also not made equal.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers Daniel D.
> > > > >
> > > > > At 11:09 8/11/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> > > > > >I did a little quick and dirty math and while Jason's 3
batteries, at
> >a
> > > > > >total cost of approximately $2000, seem prohibitively expensive,
when
> >you
> > > > > >compare them to glow fuel expense, they're competitive.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >While the electricity used to charge the batteries isn't exactly
> >free,
> > > >it's
> > > > > >such a miniscule expense I'm calling it free.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >The 3 batteries are good for 500-1000 charge/discharge cycles
giving
> >a
> > > >total
> > > > > >of 1500-3000 flights, so the cost/flight is $.66-$1.33/flight.
> >Compare
> > > >to
> > > > > >glow fuel for a 2 stroke @ $10-$15/gal costs around
$1.50-$2+/flight.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >The C50 motor plus with gear reduction plus speed controller
sells
> >for
> > > > > >around $600.  'Pretty much the same that we're paying for a 2
stroke
> >plus
> > > > > >exhaust system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >The only thing extra is a charger.  Say, $200 for a nice one.
Not
> >that
> > > >bad
> > > > > >though, because I've seen some that charge everything, including
> >RX/TX,
> > > >so
> > > > > >it's more like replacing one charger with another.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Lee Davis
> > > > > >Piedmont Models
> > > > > >http://www.piedmontmodels.com/
> > > > > >
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