Pattern Fun / scribe / Judging

[Tony Stillman]

Must be reversed from the direction of the snap.  That is the way it is
drawn in Aresti, and was verified by the FAI.

Tony Stillman
Radio South, Inc.
3702 N. Pace Blvd.
Pensacola, Fl 32505
www.radiosouthrc.com
800-962-7802
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Smith" <dfs at navnet.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe / Judging


> Apparently from the below message,the  horizontal snap,followed by 4 of an
8
> point roll,now requires they be in opposite directions?   My description
of
> this maneouvre does not say they must be opposite. I know there was some
> discussion on this a few weeks past.  Which is correct???
> Regards,,,,Dave
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tomanek, Wojtek" <tomanekw at saic-abingdon.com>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 11:25 AM
> Subject: RE: Pattern Fun / scribe / Judging
>
>
> > Ok, we spend hours and hours building the planes (or work a lot at
regular
> > jobs and pay for someone to build the plane), setting the planes,
> trimming,
> > and then practicing, and learning our sequences.  We also need to find
> time
> > to learn the other sequences.  If there are no opportunities at local
> field,
> > pay attention to the sequences in the early rounds of a contest and
maybe
> > that will be enough to be able to judge the last round, or at the next
> > contest. Use the contests to learn and not just hang out with friend.
> > Scribing is a good way to learn too.
> >
> > As a judge one has the responsibility to the pilot being judged and
others
> > in the contest to not only be familiar but know the sequence very well
and
> > easily identify small but crucial errors (say in the FAI  snap followed
by
> > point rolls in the OPPOSITE direction - wrong direction will earn you
> zero).
> > Reading the sequence is not enough, seeing it flown numerous times
> correctly
> > is a must in my book.  Eric is correct that some of the maneuver
> > descriptions are too long to be announced just before the maneuver
without
> > interfering with the judging and the pilot's concentration.  My call
sheet
> > has certain words bolded in the description and I always ask the caller
to
> > only read the bolded stuff, so I only have to be reminded of what is
> coming
> > up but not the entire maneuver description, for instance:
> >       "triangle" means "triangle with two out of four point rolls"
> >       "square" means "square form the top with half rolls in first and
> third
> > leg"
> > But that is certainly not enough for the unfamiliar judge.
> >
> > The bottom line is that it is the judges responsibility to KNOW the
> sequence
> > he/she is judging.  If you are asked to judge and you are not familiar
> with
> > the sequence - tell the CD that you are not comfortable judging this
> class,
> > he will find someone else.  In the past I have declined to judge FAI
when
> I
> > was not familiar with the sequence.  If I cannot judge to the best of my
> > abilities because I do not know the sequence I do not want to judge and
> > should not be allowed either - there are no excuses on this issue.
> >
> > Wojtek
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Henderson,Eric [SMTP:eric.henderson at gartner.com]
> > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 9:12 AM
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > Subject: RE: Pattern Fun / scribe / Judging
> >
> > I had this "Call the maneuver " request forced on me at the Nat's
> > when I was flying Advanced. The problem was it happened at the flight
line
> > and flight time. The bigger problem was that Michelle was trained to
call
> > two maneuvers at a time. Turnaround and then center, so I knew what to
set
> > up for. Result total confusion. (Great excuse for a bad flight too)
> > As a direct result from protests, by other pilots, the judge was
> > removed.  The round was not re-flown however, due to time restraints.
The
> > judge has no right to require the caller or the pilot to shout out the
> > maneuver.
> > Scribes have a duty to tell the judge what the next maneuver is.
> > Unfortunately some of the descriptions are so long that the maneuver is
> over
> > before the scribe finishes the read out. A system where the judge can
read
> > the maneuver does work, but does require end or center judging.
> > It makes no difference whether one judge or two judges judge all the
> > maneuvers when you only have two judges on the flight line.
> > Regards,
> > Eric
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mark Wendt [mailto:wendt at kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil]
> > <mailto:[mailto:wendt at kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil]>
> > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 6:31 AM
> > To: discussion at nsrca.org <mailto:discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe / Judging
> >
> >
> > Larry,
> > I'm with you 100%.  Two wrongs don't make a right.  Like you I
> > wasn't there, and I'm sure there were circumstances involved we know
> nothing
> > about.  And not knowing what class the pilot was flying, he may have
been
> up
> > to his neck in alligators if he was in one of the lower classes, and the
> > additional pressure and strain introduced by the judge was unnecessary.
> The
> > pilot was no longer concentrating solely on the flight, which can cause
> > safety of flight issues.  At a busy contest, with two lines, this can
> cause
> > real problems.
> > I think the issues leading up to the confrontation should be handled
> > at the pilots meeting, before any fuel is pumped, and laid to rest
there.
> > The issue of the pilot/caller needing or not needing to call the
maneuver
> to
> > the judge should be gone over before the contest gets under way, so that
> > everyone is singing from the same sheet of music.
> > And hard feelings generated by an incident such as this can have
> > some big repercussions.  The other pilots, seeing this display may
think,
> > well if this contest has judges like this, I'm not going to come back.
> Or,
> > on the other hand, if the judges see shouting back and forth between
pilot
> > and judge, and the CD lets them get away with it, they may not come back
> and
> > judge.  It's a two-edged sword.  Hopefully, the CD handled this
situation
> in
> > a dignified and diplomatic way, the contest got back under way, and
there
> > were no hard feelings after the fact.
> > Mark
> >
> > At 11:26 AM 9/22/2002 -0500, you wrote:
> > >Mark,
> > >
> > >I agree with you that it's was unprofessional for the judge
> > to act in the
> > >manner described. However, two wrongs don't make it right.
> > More often than
> > >not, the second foul draws the flag or penalty.
> > >
> > >There are probably a number of different ways for the CD to
> > handle this and
> > >perhaps the CD did handle it well. None the less, a yelling
> > match should
> > >never happen during a contest. The pilot should not have
> > engaged the judge
> > >even if the judge was unfair. The pilot should have plead
> > the case to the
> > CD
> > >after the flight. A number of possible remedies could have
> > been made by the
> > >CD which could have been  to allow the pilot to scrub that
> > flight and make
> > >it up at the end of the round; or, scrub the round, replace
> > the judge and
> > >redo the round.
> > >
> > >I would hope, and state during a pilot meeting if I was a
> > CD, that a judge
> > >and/or pilot give me the opportunity to resolve a problem
> > instead of taking
> > >it into there own hands. In the situation described I'm
> > certain that it
> > >removed an element of fun and camaraderie for a period of
> > time or for the
> > >whole event for that matter. The situation wasn't fair to
> > the majority of
> > >participants and the CD, setting aside the judge and the
> > pilot involved.
> > >
> > >I wasn't there and I'm sure there are two sides to the
> > story, so I can't
> > say
> > >how I would have handled it. However, based on what I
> > understand for the
> > big
> > >picture the pilot should have been held accountable to the
> > rule book. The
> > >level of accountability is very subjective and depends on
> > the severity of
> > >the conflict. To your point, perhaps the judge should have
> > been held
> > >accountable as well. Perhaps they both were...
> > >
> > >Larry
> >
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