Pattern Fun / scribe / Judging

Sat Sep 21 22:19:53 AKDT 2002

I gotta side in with Larry on this one. "The pilot is the one being judged,
not the judge."

As a newly minted certified judge in my 2nd year of struggling Intermediate
flying, the reality is that I can barely remember my own schedule sequence,
let alone the Advanced or Masters I must judge. I have worked to learn the
individual maneuvers and the downgrades to be applied. But gee, was that 1/2
square loop supposed to be a half roll on the vertical, or the 2 of 4 point
rolls?

Should I be more experienced? Limited to judging Sportsman?  Sure if it was
feasible. But reality here in the Northwest is that Sportsman, Intermediate,
and sometimes Advanced are run in the same line group. Another reality is
the most Masters I get judged by don't remember my schedule sequence much
better than I remember theirs. So unless we can talk those rare 2 or 3
people that actually can remember each maneuver and its schedule sequence,
in each class, to judge the entire contest, it might be in the pilot's best
interest that the judges know what is coming next.

Nothing in the rule book says the pilot or caller helps the judges in this
way. If the pilot doesn't want to, I'd never ask more than once (before
takeoff), and never get into a verbal match. I'd do my best without the
help, and would never consider judging someone harsher because they hadn't
complied with a request. But if I decided that Immelman was the worst 1/2
square loop I'd ever seen, I wouldn't feel guilty either.

As pilots, there are many compromises we make in our performance to present
well. Each pilot needs to make their own determination on call volume, based
on their own unique situation. You might decide its an advantage to bluff
through a screwed up maneuver if the judge isn't reminded of what it is
supposed to be. Your choice.

Steve Sterling
Dist. 8

-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Larry Diamond
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 8:52 PM
To: NSRCA List
Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe / Judging

My opinion on the pilot or caller calling the maneuvers is pretty strong....

The pilot is the one being judged, not the judge. I have seen pilots cover
errors with precision and sometime a judge doesn't see it. When this happens
even a well seasoned judge may loose track of the next maneuver because an
exit was upright and should have been inverted and get confused. This throws
off the flow of the person judging and allows the pilot an opportunity to
score better than deserved. This isn't fair to the other pilots.

If the maneuvers are called loud enough for the judges to hear, the scribe
don't need to call the maneuvers and the judge is mentally prepared to judge
it. This will assist not only the judges with less experience to get it
right, but also prevent a seasoned judge from missing and scoring better
than deserved.

For the issue stated below...Although my comments suggest a vary harsh
action by the CD, it is with in their authority...The rule book states that,
"A contestant or someone representing a contestant can't talk to an event
judge unless it is the CD". This would be understood that even if the CD was
a judge that the contestant can't talk to him/her about judging. The harsh
reality in my opinion is that the CD has the authority to disqualify the
contestant for willful misconduct if they get into a yelling match with a
judge, or the CD could be called under protest by another contestant if that
person wins and wasn't disqualified (or penalized such a zero for the whole
flight). Harsh, but that's how I see it...

The action the pilot should have taken was to protest to the CD and keep
cool. This is a "right" for the contestant. A CD must protect the judges or
the judges may be reluctant to judge again.

.02 worth

Larry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Glatt" <adam.g at sasktel.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe

Hmmm... or even worse, as I witnessed this season at one contest, the judge
is ignored in his request, and part ways through the flight the judge
requests the manuevers be called louder again.  Ignored agian.  Asks again,
louder.  Pilot gives message to caller, caller tells judge that the caller
doesn't have to call out the manuevers at all if the pilot doesn't want them
(correct).  Judge asks again. Pilot tells judge same thing, only by this
time is pissed off, along with the caller and judge.  For rest of flight
judge whispers scores to scribe loud enough for everyone at that line (other
judge, pilot, caller), and I (sitting back 30 feet) to hear.  Ugly, ugly
situation to watch, pilot and judge got into yelling match after flight.

The entire flight is worthless, and we have two people very angry at each
other, and a CD who has to hear the entire story from different points of
view.

I think the lesson is, don't refuse a judge.  If judges are requesting loud
calling and a pilot doesn't want the loud calling, the CD needs to step in
BEFORE the flight and assign a caller for the judge.  The rule on what has
to be called, and how loud, should also be explained by the CD at the pilots
meeting before the contest begins if there is any disagreement.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Glaze" <billglaze at triad.rr.com>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: September 21, 2002 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe
> Still, having said that, it is still preferable to call the maneuvers
> for the judge, rather than have him/her get "lost" in the sequence.
> And, for most of us, a refusal is unthinkable.  Do you want to get the
> judge mad at you before the takeoff?<G>
>

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