Pattern Fun / scribe/Judging

ronlock ronlock at comcast.net
Sat Sep 21 17:52:27 AKDT 2002 

The situation the CD was in, and then pulled you into is a
difficult one.   Unfortunately, it's a real world situation at times.
Sounds like you did a good job with the tools at your disposal.
How to do better - I don't have a magic answer to that.
Flying the schedules is not necessary to improve your
judging of them.   Flying and Judging are related skills, but
neitheris a prerequisite to doing the other well.
Spending time at practice judging, or at calling those classes
will help, if you can find the time and opportunity to do it.

Ron Lockhart

----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Brox" <tbrox at cox.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe


> I have been asked to judged both Masters and FAI, and because there was
not
> enough flyers in those classes, I agreed to do the best I can. I was able
to
> relate to the CD as to the problems he was having coming up with judges to
> cover these classes without using the same 2 or 3 people every round. I
did
> my best to judge each maneuver watching for mistakes in each element  such
> as over or under rotation on rolls, different loop radii, changes in
heading
> etc. This way I was able to come to some sort of reasonable score for each
> maneuver, even though I was not sure of how the exact maneuver was flown.
> That was the best I could do under the circumstances. Any suggestion to be
> better without flying the shedule? I am an advanced flyer right now.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Glaze" <billglaze at triad.rr.com>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 2:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe
>
>
> > To add to what Ron says:
> > I feel that, in some cases, a judges request to have maneuvers called
> > loudly enough for him to hear, is indicating a lack of knowledge of the
> > sequence by the judge.
> > This may or not be true, but it seems to me that when I have stepped to
> > the line and been asked to have my caller call loudly enough for the
> > judges to hear, that I felt a little unsure about the judges
> > capability.  Probably unfair on my part, but that is the impression I
> > get.
> > Still, having said that, it is still preferable to call the maneuvers
> > for the judge, rather than have him/her get "lost" in the sequence.
> > And, for most of us, a refusal is unthinkable.  Do you want to get the
> > judge mad at you before the takeoff?<G>
> >
> > Best situation I have ever seen: A separate "caller" sitting in back of
> > the judges, quietly calling the next maneuver to *them* only.  Worked
> > great.
> > It did, of course, require an extra person.  Probably would never be
> > required for all classes, either.  Just (probably) Masters and FAI.
> > Not trying to start something here; just an idea.
> >
> > ronlock wrote:
> >
> > > Most of us have likely been in situations where judges
> > > ask to have maneuvers called loud enough for judges
> > > to here.   I cerrtainly do it when asked, but it's not
> > > a solution I prefer- it is a considerable distraction
> > > from the job of calling for the pilot- which can be
> > > a lot more than simple calling the maneuvers with
> > > the timing that a judge needs.
> > >
> > > Ron Lockhart
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Brian Young" <b4598070 at yahoo.com>
> > > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 8:48 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe
> > >
> > > > Hah....I replaced my 1/2 square loop w/ 1/2 roll up,
> > > > with an immelman. One judge noticed but wasnt sure so
> > > > scored it anyway. If I cant remember my schedule
> > > > theres no way I will remember everyone elses. Wasnt
> > > > there a rule once where the pilots caller had to call
> > > > maneuvers loud enough for the judges to hear?
> > > >
> > > > But then there was the time I was judging and an FAI
> > > > pilot came out and didnt use a caller.....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- ROBERT PASTORELLO <faipatrn at msn.com> wrote:
> > > > > Most folks, being honest, would have to admit they
> > > > > DO NOT know all the classes...which raises the
> > > > > question of "what if the pilot's caller doesn't call
> > > > > loudly enough for you to hear?", or better yet,
> > > > > "what if the CALLER calls the INCORRECT maneuver?"
> > > > > [Nah, NEVER would happen]
> > > > >
> > > > > Then, where's the judge at...an ugly place....
> > > > >
> > > > > I saw a pilot do a 3/4 roll on a humpty that should
> > > > > have been 1/4....zeroed him...the OTHER judge
> > > > > "didn't see that", so he scored it a 7 or
> > > > > something...and since we weren't conferring, guess
> > > > > what?
> > > > >
> > > > > SEVERAL people were REALLY interested in why there
> > > > > was a difference...except the pilot....hmm...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Del Rykert
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:19 PM
> > > > > To: discussion at nsrca.org; vanputte at nuc.net
> > > > > Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe
> > > > >
> > > > > How do you memorize all the different classes of
> > > > > maneuvers? I can't memorize
> > > > > my own let alone all the others.
> > > > >
> > > > >      Del K. Rykert
> > > > >      AMA - 8928
> > > > >      NSRCA - 473
> > > > >      Kb2joi - General
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at nuc.net>
> > > > > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2002 6:25 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Pattern Fun / scribe
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I don't use a scribe and I never look down.  I use
> > > > > a legal size
> > > > > > clipboard and a long legal pad to record the
> > > > > scores.  Then I transfer
> > > > > > the scores during the landing approach.  You can't
> > > > > do that?  Pity.  I've
> > > > > > been doing it for years.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ron Van Putte
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > George Kennie wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Right On!, James!
> > > > > > > That's exactly why I wont sit in the chair
> > > > > without a scribe!
> > > > > > > G
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Woodward James R Civ 412 TW/DRP wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>You may have your own opinion on scribes or no
> > > > > scribes.  BUT, do this at
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >>next contest.  Fly your round, then sit back and
> > > > > watch another flyer in
> > > > > YOUR
> > > > > > >>class.  Whatch his flight real close, and I'm
> > > > > sure you'll pick out some
> > > > > > >>errors, then, quickly look at the judges and
> > > > > notice which of the judges
> > > > > did
> > > > > > >>not see the error, because their head was
> > > > > obviously down, and looking at
> > > > > the
> > > > > > >>paper.  Then, realize that if you judge and look
> > > > > down to write scores,
> > > > > that
> > > > > > >>you probably miss something from that flight as
> > > > > well.  At the last
> > > > > contest,
> > > > > > >>I watched 1 judge who consistently missed the
> > > > > first two points of the
> > > > > > >>inverted 4-pt roll, because they were looking
> > > > > down at writing the score
> > > > > from
> > > > > > >>the full-roll 1/2 outside loop.  How the heck
> > > > > can you judge the 4-pt
> > > > > > >>accurately, if you miss the entry (wings level?
> > > > > heading?
> > > > > > >>decending/climbing?), first roll rate, etc? Not
> > > > > to mention all other
> > > > > > >>manuevers.  No judge should be looking down
> > > > > during any flight, from
> > > > > > >>sportsman to FAI.  Tough issue....
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>Jim W.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>-----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >>From: John Ferrell
> > > > > [mailto:johnferrell at earthlink.net]
> > > > > > >>Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:52 AM
> > > > > > >>To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > > > > >>Subject: Re: Pattern Fun
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> (Can't see how you can judge FAI or Masters
> > > > > without a scribe.)
> > > > > > >>You don't have to keep the clipboard in your
> > > > > lap!
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>John Ferrell
> > > > > > >>6241 Phillippi Rd
> > > > > > >>Julian NC 27283
> > > > > > >>Phone: (336)685-9606
> > > > > > >>Dixie Competition Products
> > > > > > >>NSRCA 479 AMA 4190  W8CCW
> > > > > > >>"My Competition is Not My Enemy"
> > > > > > >>
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> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > > Brian Young
> > > > Tulsa
> > > > b4598070 at yahoo.com
> > > > 918-745-6046h
> > > > 918-838-0900w
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
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