K-Factor Pattern an invisible group

Del Rykert drykert at rochester.rr.com
Sun Nov 3 17:13:33 AKST 2002 

Good luck George..  I suspect you talking to the wall..  I have been talking
and walking that walk for over 15 years and told I don't know what I'm
talking about to the excuse that people just change to other expensive
hobbies..  When I look at what attendance used to be like and the ratio of
expense of pattern planes that were competitive in Dave Browns hands in
relation to sport planes in that same time frame the expense has grown very
different. Pattern costing much more to be competitive.

     Del K. Rykert
     AMA - 8928
     NSRCA - 473
     Kb2joi - General
----- Original Message -----
From: "GeorgeF." <av8tor at flash.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 1:26 PM
Subject: RE: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group


> The second highest reason people don't fly pattern is as follows: "Too
> expensive to be "competitive"".   That is not what I'm saying, that was
> what the people who aren't flying pattern are saying so I can only assume
> they know the reason they don't fly.
>
> Regarding the comments about using radios under $400 and planes in the
$600
> range.  YES you can fly pattern with the lessor expensive radios and
planes
> but you will not be as competitive.  If you don't believe me then look at
> Chip, and all the other top FAI and Masters pilots, I don't see them
flying
> $400 radios or $600 planes.  If lessor radios and planes are competitive
> then why are the top pilots using them?????
>
> Now yes you can do will in the lower classes with lessor radios and planes
> however that is NOT what the newcomer sees.   The newcomer to the hobby
> sees $4000+ planes being flown and is "Perception" is that that is what it
> takes to be competitive regardless of class.   Its more a matter of
> perception, after all when was the last time a $400.00 radio won a well
> attended Masters or FAI event????
>
> George
> "Please see the entire picture before pattern totally disappears"
>
> At 11:02 AM 10/31/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> >Howdy,
> >
> >I don't agree with the "sky-high-cost" to be competitive equipment
argument
> >- in regards to why people don't want to join or fly pattern.  There are
an
> >assortment of radios under $400 that are entirely capable of pattern
needs.
> >There are more engine and exhaust choices now than ever.  There are used
> >planes or new ARF/ARC planes available in the $600-$800 range (Piedmont
> >Models and Zimpro Marketing  - both American companies).  Sky-high-costs
> >compared to what?  What other venue of R/C flying can you get into and be
> >competitve for less money than a pattern plane?  Jets? Scale? Sailplanes?
> >Q-500? IMAC?
>
>
>
>
>
> >I think there are plenty of people who are willing to practice, compete,
and
> >spend hard-earned money to compete and/or be competitive.  The real
question
> >is why doesn't pattern get a bigger piece of the new R/C enthusiast pie?
> >Precisely what Bob's survey's questions are asking.  Somewhere in this is
> >that, "pattern in hard."  Being a competitive flyer within each of our
> >ability groups has more to do with your ability and practicing, than
> >airplane selection.
> >
> >I don't know why, but there have been some very recent times when I
practice
> >(actually flying) at the club field on the weekend, I can HEAR in the
> >background people talking about why they don't fly pattern.  My planes
and
> >the fact that they see the dedication to practice, really bother some of
the
> >local guys in that without asking, they will approach and talk about why
> >they don't have one, the time they don't have to PRACTICE, and the cost
of
> >equipment.  A couple of them are lined up to tell me why they don't fly
> >pattern as soon as I land.  I'm a nice guy.  However, I didn't approach
each
> >person and ask them to come over and complain to me.  They feel quite
free
> >to express their ill-will or gudge.  I offer some of them to try the
plane,
> >and they wouldn't touch it with a ten foot poll.  I don't wait for
someone
> >to land the Hanger 9 Pizazz .40 that buzzed my head three times, and go
over
> >and tell them all the reasons I don't fly like that.  You see, many
people
> >will approach and openly discuss why they don't participate - more times
> >than I'd like.  With these guys, there is NOTHING I can say for which
they
> >don't already have a prepared answer.  I just listen and hope the
punishment
> >is quickly over.  If I offer them to fly the plane, and they don't want
to,
> >I really can't do anything else to be congenial.
> >
> >The main "club" reasons are:
> >1.  I don't have the time to practice to fly like that
> >2.  I like to fly different kind of planes (and not be pinned down to one
> >plane)
> >3.  I don't have the money for that.
> >
> >Almost all the time, the list starts with, "I don't have the time to
> >practice."  Some of them have nice equipment and expensive engines in
their
> >other planes, too.  A few times, someone says, "boy, if I had the money
I'd
> >get one of those in a heart beat."
> >
> >I do believe that our club is starting to be more receptive to the idea
of
> >more members flying areiobatics.  There are a couple long standing
members
> >that fly either pattern, or wish to start an IMAC contest at the club
(club
> >already supports a pattern contest).  Also, there are about 3 new club
> >members (like myself), who fly aerobatics.  Our club is predominately a
R/C
> >flyer trainnig ground.  Club instruction has been the primary concern for
a
> >long while.  Just recently, we passed a trial by-law in which "training"
> >could only occur from the beginning of each hour to the 1/2 of each hour.
> >This was a great event, and now, you can plan on 1/2 hour of each hour as
> >time for which "training" will not occur.
> >Jim
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: GeorgeF. [mailto:av8tor at flash.net]
> >Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 10:25 AM
> >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> >Subject: RE: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group
> >
> >
> >Got it and thanks.
> >
> >Being that I was HEAVY into pattern many years ago and then quit the
> >results of that survey is not surprising at all.   Local support and
> >interest just wasn't there.
> >
> >After moving to Florida I had thoughts of re-entering the sport and again
> >find that there is just no local support or interest not to mention the
sky
> >high price of todays equipment to be competitive.  While for me money is
> >not much of a concern however I feel it is the high cost of being
> >competitive which actually leads to the issue of "no local support and
> >interest".  As shown by the survey the #2 reason was equipment costs.
> >
> >After seeing some of the rules that some members what changed in the name
> >of "allowing more people to fly pattern" these are simply excuses to get
a
> >rule change passed.   In the past nearly every rule change (ie: engine
size
> >& aircraft size) which was meant to increase pattern involvement has
> >not.  In fact the long-term effect of those rule changes did nothing but
> >increase the cost of being competitive.
> >
> >George
> >NSRCA member since 1990
> >
> >At 12:07 PM 10/31/2002 -0600, you wrote:
> >
> > >George
> > >
> > >rcuniverse.com     go to 3D aerobatics and Pattern then search for
surveys
> > >
> > >or go to one of Bob's previous post's and click on the URL
> > >
> > > >From: "GeorgeF."
> > > >Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >Subject: RE: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group
> > > >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:17:48 -0500
> > > >
> > > >Where is this survey found? URL?
> > > >George
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >At 08:41 AM 10/31/2002 -0800, you wrote:
> > > >> - yah, it tells me that the survey is not gear towards pattern
> > > >>flyers or those interested in pattern. The "jist" of it appears to
> > > >>be towards those who have not competed, or did and quit, and why.
> > > >>
> > > >>Jim
> > > >>-----Original Message-----
> > > >>From: Buddy Brammer [mailto:buddybrammer35 at hotmail.com]
> > > >>Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:41 AM
> > > >>To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >>Subject: Re: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group
> > > >>
> > > >>For those intrested Bob's survey at RCU has already had more
> > > >>responses than the rules change survey and it has only been running
> > > >>a few days! Does that tell you something?
> > > >>
> > > >>Buddy
> > > >>
> > > >> >From: "Buddy Brammer"
> > > >> >Reply-To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >> >To: discussion at nsrca.org
> > > >> >Subject: K-Factor Pattern an invisible group
> > > >> >Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:27:23 -0600
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>----------
> > > >>Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
> > > >>Click Here
> >
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