<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I agree 100% with Pat's email below.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Thanks Pat,</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Sean</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div id="Signature">
<div>
<p>Sent from <a href="http://aka.ms/weboutlook">Outlook</a><br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8-bounces@lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of Patrick Harris via NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 26, 2022 10:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jim Hiller <jnhiller@comcast.net>; AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY <nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-dist8] Batteries</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Jim, Art,</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">My pleasure. It's interesting to note that Andrew and AC will not be able to utilize the longer flight times of 12's at the NATS and the Worlds. </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">As an aside, there was an interesting (or contentious) thread on RC Universe a while back. The guy wanted to get in a fight with me, but I wanted nothing to do with it. He was off on
some tangent that a 12's system will not result in lower heat in the batteries. The long and short of it is, a 12's system is a higher voltage system than 10's, which results in it (12's) being a "more efficient" system. I am no electronic genius by any means,
but I do know that higher voltage systems are noted as being more efficient. For our purposes, an efficient system simply has a lower current draw, which results in lower heat being generated within the system. </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">John can correct me if I am wrong, but it's pretty much a question of how we generate the "Watts" in our system. In a 10's system, to generate X amount of watts of power, we need to
pull X amount of Amps from the batteries. In a 12's system we now trade volts for amps. Simply said, to now generate the same amount of watts as our 10's system, we now are able to pull less amps from the batteries. (40 volts times 70 amp draw equals 2,800
watts) Conversely in a 12's system, (2,800 watts divided by 48 volts equals a 58 amp draw). Amps times Volts = Watts</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The bottom line is the roughly 12 amp less draw is really pretty irrelevant for our motor and ESC. Yes they might run a bit cooler, but they are built to take it. The real bonus is
with less amp draw from our batteries they are simply going to run cooler. As we all know, heat is the death knell to our batteries. Less current draw equates to less heat, which equates to longer battery life. A high current draw from our batteries raises
the internal resistance. The next time we fly, our batteries heat goes up due to the higher internal resistance, which now raises the internal resistance even further, which results in more heat being generated....the result a big puffy, shot battery.</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">There is also a side note that I am not versed enough to discuss. It's my understanding that a higher voltage system may have less internal resistance of its components due to the lower
current (amp) draw. Lower internal resistance equates to lower heat generation. </div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">It's all about the heat baby! Keep in mind, your mileage may vary. </div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="x_gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 10:31 AM Jim Hiller via NSRCA-dist8 <<a href="mailto:nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" style="">
<div class="x_gmail-m_6298736132839605585WordSection1">
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Scott, I’m no expert but I don’t think I’d do that, epically if batteries are not purchased together and USED together. If one of the four gets week it will drop voltage faster then the other three and increase amp draw. If one is not
paying close attention to the battery condition excessive amp draw will detiourate the other three, requiring replacement of all four. I’ve had this happen with a low voltage shutdown to two 5-S batteries, running the good one as well. To prevent this the
ESC low V cut off would need to be set too high.</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">This is just my opinion.</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Jim</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986" target="_blank">
Mail</a> for Windows</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div style="border-right:none; border-bottom:none; border-left:none; border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225); padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="border:none; padding:0in"><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">Shawn Bekheimer via NSRCA-dist8</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, January 26, 2022 6:06 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:stnagler@gmail.com" target="_blank">stnagler@gmail.com</a>;
<a href="mailto:nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [NSRCA-dist8] Batteries</p>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">I can’t see why not. There will be minimal loss due to connector count but most likely not noticeable. <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt; margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:14 PM, stnagler--- via NSRCA-dist8 <<a href="mailto:nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt; margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Maybe a newb question, but could 4-3s batteries work as well to get to 12s?<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Scott<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 20:57 Patrick Harris via NSRCA-dist8 <<a href="mailto:nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-top:none; border-right:none; border-bottom:none; border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204); padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left:4.8pt; margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">If you haven’t seen it’s, here is the video Andrew did recently comparing 10’s and 12’s <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><a href="https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR1ylyggiK9aZWt0I2eG19TTULyKflWRfKcCg2P510HLmvHZw8bVTwSq6t0&v=0Rz5WdhEJwA&feature=youtu.be" target="_blank">https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR1ylyggiK9aZWt0I2eG19TTULyKflWRfKcCg2P510HLmvHZw8bVTwSq6t0&v=0Rz5WdhEJwA&feature=youtu.be</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt; margin-bottom:5pt">
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">On Jan 25, 2022, at 7:32 PM, Sean Mersh via NSRCA-dist8 <<a href="mailto:nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5pt; margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black">I have experimented with 12S batteries; I used the TP 4000mAh batteries. Average remaining capacity after one P-23 flight: 38%.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black">With 10S TP 4400 mAh batteries: Average r<span style="background:white">emaining capacity after one P-23 flight: 32%. It is the same for the newer version that is 48 g lighter, almost 2 ounces </span></span><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif; color:black; background:white">🙂</span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black">!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black; background:white">Weight:</span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black; background:white">TP 12S 4000 mAh, 25C ProLiteX: 1062 g</span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black; background:white">TP 10S 4400 mAh, 25C ProLiteX: 1025 g</span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black; background:white">New TP 10S 4400 mAh, 25C ProLiteX: 977 g</span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black; background:white">My conclusion: unless you're flying F-23 and Unknowns, 10S 4400 mAh batteries are more than adequate and save you almost 3 ounces, compared to the 12S 4000 mAh packs. I agree
that the 12S batteries will probably last longer, since they are not worked as hard as 10S packs. I could not feel any performance improvement with 12S packs.</span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black; background:white">As stated by other members: 12S packs are legal now in AMA classes, but not yet in FAI. </span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black; background:white">Another consideration: My Mezon ESC does not automatically recognize the pack cell count. So, if I switch from 10S to 12S, I need to reprogram the ESC </span><span style="font-size:12pt; font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif; color:black; background:white">😟</span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black; background:white">.</span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black; background:white">But, 6S (2x) cells are much more readily available than 5S or 10S packs.</span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black; background:white">Lots of variables!</span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black; background:white">Sean</span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black; background:white"><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div id="x_gmail-m_6298736132839605585m_6177295647455422953Signature">
<div>
<p>Sent from <a href="http://aka.ms/weboutlook" target="_blank">Outlook</a></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt; color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><img border="0" width="500" height="2" id="x_gmail-m_6298736132839605585Horizontal_x0020_Line_x0020_1" style="width:5.2083in; height:0.0208in" data-outlook-trace="F:1|T:1" src="cid:17e97728d976991130d1"><u></u><u></u></p>
<div id="x_gmail-m_6298736132839605585m_6177295647455422953divRplyFwdMsg">
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> NSRCA-dist8 <<a href="mailto:nsrca-dist8-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-dist8-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>> on behalf of Karl Watts via NSRCA-dist8
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 24, 2022 7:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY <<a href="mailto:nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-dist8@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-dist8] Batteries</span> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="margin:0in">Anyone switching to 12s packs?</p>
<p style="margin:0in"> </p>
<p style="margin:0in">Karl</p>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><br>
Confidentiality Notice:<br>
This e-mail, including any attachments is the property of Trinity Health and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution
is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message, and reply to the sender regarding the error in a separate email.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-dist8 mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-dist8@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-dist8@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist8" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist8</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-dist8 mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-dist8@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-dist8@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist8" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist8</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0.5in; margin-bottom:5pt; margin-left:0.5in">
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-dist8 mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-dist8@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-dist8@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist8" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist8</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-dist8 mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-dist8@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-dist8@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist8" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist8</a><br>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>