[NSRCA-dist8] [External] Re: Batteries

Thu Jan 27 13:22:22 AKST 2022

That is correct, but you may not get optimal results using 10's on a 12's
wound motor.

On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 3:17 PM Karl Watts <Karl.Watts at saintalphonsus.org>
wrote:

> OK, so you cannot use a 10s motor with 12s packs, but can you use a 12s
> motor with 10s packs?  Maybe a dumb question.  Trying to keep my options
> open.
>
>
>
> Karl
>
>
>
> *From:* NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> *On Behalf Of *Patrick
> Harris via NSRCA-dist8
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 27, 2022 11:31 AM
> *To:* Velkydilnar <velkydilnar at comcast.net>
> *Cc:* AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY <nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-dist8] [External] Re: Batteries
>
>
>
> Lyle
>
>
>
> Great idea. Let me know when you get it perfected!
>
>
>
> I still fly contras. The main reson is the "cool" factor. You know "It;s
> better to look good than to be good".
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 11:26 AM Velkydilnar <velkydilnar at comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> On the speed discussion.
>
> Xareltoo with YS200 and 22x11 prop, the prop has such braking power that
>  Alex has to add power to not stall the model in down lines maneuvers. From
> seeing the top European pilots, it’s about consistency. CPLR is not really
> slow. But he is always the same.
>
>
>
> I think for electric, we can play with wide props and use the governor
> function in ESC.  I think that is Sean’s way to help with constant speed.
>
>
>
> Sean, am I correct?
>
>
>
> On Jan 27, 2022, at 10:10 AM, Lyle Laughery via NSRCA-dist8 <
> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I’m thing someone will design a motor and prop so the contra only works on
> down lines ,then kicks out on horizontal and 45’s .Like changing gears from
> first to third on a car trans.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 10:04 AM Patrick Harris via NSRCA-dist8 <
> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Igor,
>
>
>
> Interesting that you bring up flying slower. There has been a major shift
> in flying styles of the top guys over the last few years and it all
> revolves around speed.
>
>
>
> It wasn't that long ago, everyone wanted to fly slow and close in. John
> Bentley has been to several Worlds and can attest that the top 20 or so
> percent of the field all fly at a top level and it has become very
> difficult to judge. The big thing now is ultra consistent speed. In fact
> consistent speed has now become a major judging criteria to help
> distinguish the very top pilots.
>
>
>
> The problem is, it is very difficult to fly slow and have consistent
> speed. The limiting factor is "downlines''. You can only control downline
> speed so much. So what the big boys are now doing is watching their
> downline speed and matching that to their horizontal and 45 speed. The
> outcome has become "faster" and a bit further out flying styles.
>
>
>
> One other issue is contras. Andrew was flying contras maybe three or four
> years ago. He told me he stopped flying them because he couldn't get
> consistent speed. I was flying a contra at the time and didn't really pick
> up on what he was talking about for several months. I started to really
> concentrate on speed and realized I couldn't fly uplines at the same speed
> as 45's and horizontals. Flying a contra is kind of like driving a tractor.
> A tractor might go 3 miles per hour at 1/3 throttle but only 5 miles per
> hour at full throttle. You can go upline with a contra with just a couple
> of clicks of power, but if you go full throttle it wont go much
> faster....it just burns up batteries.
>
>
>
> The bottom line is we are going to burn more juice to get consistent
> flying speed, but that's the price we have to pay.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 10:26 AM Karl Watts <Karl.Watts at saintalphonsus.org>
> wrote:
>
> Anyone want some never used Roaring Top, 5C, 5800 mAh, 35C lipo batteries
> with EC5 connectors?  Purchased the 5800 by mistake, wanted the 5000.  I
> have 6 of them.  Retail right now for $72 each.  I do not remember how much
> I paid for them, not that much, they were on sale.  Will give you a really
> good deal - $45/each.
>
>
>
> Karl
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Mersh <mershs at hotmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2022 8:42 PM
> *To:* Patrick Harris <harris7148 at gmail.com>; AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY <
> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>; Jim Hiller <jnhiller at comcast.net>; Karl
> Watts <Karl.Watts at saintalphonsus.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-dist8] [External] Re: Batteries
>
>
>
> Yes, there is a difference:
>
> 35C's are heavier than 25C's, because the only way (at present) to
> increase C rating is to add more metal to the packs, increasing weight.
>
> BUT: in pattern, unlike in 3D or helicopter flying, we don't need more
> than 25C because we don't pull short bursts of high power, as long as we
> use good throttle management with SLOW throttle stick movements.
>
>
>
> Sent from Outlook
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of
> Karl Watts via NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2022 11:00 AM
> *To:* Patrick Harris <harris7148 at gmail.com>; AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY <
> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>; Jim Hiller <jnhiller at comcast.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-dist8] [External] Re: Batteries
>
>
>
> OK, so, does it make a difference if I get the 35 C 10s 5000s versus the
> 25 C 10s 5000s?
>
>
>
> *From:* NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> *On Behalf Of *Patrick
> Harris via NSRCA-dist8
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 26, 2022 11:18 AM
> *To:* Jim Hiller <jnhiller at comcast.net>; AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY <
> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Subject:* [External] Re: [NSRCA-dist8] Batteries
>
>
>
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>
>
> Jim, Art,
>
>
>
> My pleasure. It's interesting to note that Andrew and AC will not be able
> to utilize the longer flight times of 12's at the NATS and the Worlds.
>
>
>
> As an aside, there was an interesting (or contentious) thread on RC
> Universe a while back. The guy wanted to get in a fight with me, but I
> wanted nothing to do with it. He was off on some tangent that a 12's system
> will not result in lower heat in the batteries. The long and short of it
> is, a 12's system is a higher voltage system than 10's, which results in it
> (12's) being a "more efficient" system. I am no electronic genius by any
> means, but I do know that higher voltage systems are noted as being more
> efficient. For our purposes, an efficient system simply has a lower current
> draw, which results in lower heat being generated within the system.
>
>
>
> John can correct me if I am wrong, but it's pretty much a question of how
> we generate the "Watts" in our system. In a 10's system, to generate X
> amount of watts of power, we need to pull X amount of Amps from the
> batteries. In a 12's system we now trade volts for amps. Simply said, to
> now generate the same amount of watts as our 10's system, we now are able
> to pull less amps from the batteries. (40 volts times 70 amp draw equals
> 2,800 watts) Conversely in a 12's system, (2,800 watts divided by 48 volts
> equals a 58 amp draw). Amps times Volts = Watts
>
>
>
> The bottom line is the roughly 12 amp less draw is really pretty
> irrelevant for our motor and ESC. Yes they might run a bit cooler, but they
> are built to take it. The real bonus is with less amp draw from our
> batteries they are simply going to run cooler. As we all know, heat is the
> death knell to our batteries. Less current draw equates to less heat, which
> equates to longer battery life. A high current draw from our batteries
> raises the internal resistance. The next time we fly, our batteries heat
> goes up due to the higher internal resistance, which now raises the
> internal resistance even further, which results in more heat being
> generated....the result a big puffy, shot battery.
>
>
>
> There is also a side note that I am not versed enough to discuss. It's my
> understanding that a higher voltage system may have less internal
> resistance of its components due to the lower current (amp) draw. Lower
> internal resistance equates to lower heat generation.
>
>
>
> It's all about the heat baby! Keep in mind, your mileage may vary.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 10:31 AM Jim Hiller via NSRCA-dist8 <
> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> Scott, I’m no expert but I don’t think I’d do that, epically if batteries
> are not purchased together and USED together. If one of the four gets week
> it will drop voltage faster then the other three and increase amp draw. If
> one is not paying close attention to the battery condition excessive amp
> draw will detiourate the other three, requiring replacement of all four.
> I’ve had this happen with a low voltage shutdown to two 5-S batteries,
> running the good one as well. To prevent this the ESC low V cut off would
> need to be set too high.
>
>
>
> This is just my opinion.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail
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> for Windows
>
>
>
> *From: *Shawn Bekheimer via NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, January 26, 2022 6:06 AM
> *To: *stnagler at gmail.com; AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY
> <nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [NSRCA-dist8] Batteries
>
>
>
> I can’t see why not. There will be minimal loss due to connector count but
> most likely not noticeable.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Jan 25, 2022, at 11:14 PM, stnagler--- via NSRCA-dist8 <
> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Maybe a newb question, but could 4-3s batteries work as well to get to 12s?
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 20:57 Patrick Harris via NSRCA-dist8 <
> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> If you haven’t seen it’s, here is the video Andrew did recently comparing
> 10’s and 12’s
>
>
>
>
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR1ylyggiK9aZWt0I2eG19TTULyKflWRfKcCg2P510HLmvHZw8bVTwSq6t0&v=0Rz5WdhEJwA&feature=youtu.be
> <https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR1ylyggiK9aZWt0I2eG19TTULyKflWRfKcCg2P510HLmvHZw8bVTwSq6t0%26v%3D0Rz5WdhEJwA%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&data=04%7C01%7CKarl.Watts%40saintalphonsus.org%7Caaefb313caa94fafe8e508d9e1c34e75%7C0d91e6194a2c4c80b9598fdf518e52e8%7C0%7C0%7C637789051230561232%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=O%2FOTRyvKXdXUPFgjmAVkedcsoTJfKYNG0iYg%2B4RwDjE%3D&reserved=0>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Jan 25, 2022, at 7:32 PM, Sean Mersh via NSRCA-dist8 <
> nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I have experimented with 12S batteries; I used the TP 4000mAh batteries.
> Average remaining capacity after one P-23 flight: 38%.
>
> With 10S TP 4400 mAh batteries: Average remaining capacity after one P-23
> flight: 32%. It is the same for the newer version that is 48 g lighter,
> almost 2 ounces 🙂!
>
> Weight:
>
> TP 12S 4000 mAh, 25C ProLiteX: 1062 g
>
> TP 10S 4400 mAh, 25C ProLiteX: 1025 g
>
> New TP 10S 4400 mAh, 25C ProLiteX: 977 g
>
> My conclusion: unless you're flying F-23 and Unknowns, 10S 4400 mAh
> batteries are more than adequate and save you almost 3 ounces, compared to
> the 12S 4000 mAh packs. I agree that the 12S batteries will probably last
> longer, since they are not worked as hard as 10S packs. I could not feel
> any performance improvement with 12S packs.
>
> As stated by other members: 12S packs are legal now in AMA classes, but
> not yet in FAI.
>
> Another consideration: My Mezon ESC does not automatically recognize the
> pack cell count. So, if I switch from 10S to 12S, I need to reprogram the
> ESC 😟.
>
> But, 6S (2x) cells are much more readily available than 5S or 10S packs.
>
> Lots of variables!
>
> Sean
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Outlook
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>
>
>
> *From:* NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of
> Karl Watts via NSRCA-dist8 <nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 24, 2022 7:25 PM
> *To:* AK, ID, MT, OR, WA, WY <nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org>
> *Subject:* [NSRCA-dist8] Batteries
>
>
>
> Anyone switching to 12s packs?
>
>
>
> Karl
>
>
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