"<font><font color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">I think Jon C is working on a proposed 'template' for this year. "<br><br>Good. That is the only way we can move on with something. We need a proposal to vote for or against. The current email debate has fallen into the infinite do-loop syndrome. The only way to formally act on this is for a proposal to be put forward. So, I'll wait to see what that is. <br>
<br>By the way, you guys missed a fun time in Yuma. Friday, practice day, was beautiful. Saturday morning was fantastic with calm air, then we were treated to very windy conditions late Saturday. We got in 4 rounds on Sat and rained out this morning. Even though it was shortened by two rounds today, I had fun. You got a little of everything. No air, high wind, right to left, and left to right. Plus, we really enjoyed the Mexican food at Mi Ranchito on 4th st. I'll go back to that place for sure.<br>
<br>Now I'll be waiting for Jon's proposal. <br><br>Steve<br></font></font><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 11:13 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:AtwoodDon@aol.com">AtwoodDon@aol.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="font-family: Arial; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 10pt;"><font color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">
<div>OK, after thinking about this for a while, here is my opinion, for whatever
that is worth. We are wrestling with a near term request and a longer term
approach. Following is my opinion and does not represent anyone else, so
if you as a FAI flyer agree or don't agree, let Jon and the rest of the FAI
flyers know what you think or want.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>This 'discussion' started as a question framed around whether we should
allow some provision to fly F at the Arvin contest in May to provide a way for
people that wanted to go to the Nats an opportunity to fly F competitively prior
to the Nats. And for a few, the opportunity to fly F just because they wanted
to. So far, so good. I do not have any problem supporting our D7 members
that want to compete in the Nats. I can live with some level of compromise
to support that. Good for you. Go D7!!! </div>
<div> </div>
<div>At this point some of us headed for the popcorn and microwave assuming this
was going to get</div>
<div>interesting. And it has.....<br> <br>A few ideas were batted
around about how to accommodate those wanting to practice F in a competitive
setting with little or no impact to those that don't really want to fly F.
Basically, we were looking for a middle ground to keep everyone happy.
Predictably, the discussion quickly became more about why that won't work for a
myriad of reasons and we should make a District wide decision to change the way
we run the FAI class. Now, remember the original request was to provide an
avenue for 'F' exposure prior to the Nats.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have flown in the FAI/F3A class for many years under the format we
settled into for local contests. I worked my way up thru all the available AMA
classes over the years and ended up in 'FAI'. I have flown most of my FAI
contests in D7 and have not attended the Nats for many years. Personally, I
don't have much interest in flying F. When I say I 'fly FAI' it is just a
designation for the class I competed in using the same rules for everybody
everybody else in that contest. I am by no means a world class flyer and
if I am not qualified to call myself a FAI flyer because I don't fly F, I don't
have an problem with that, it is just a name. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>D7 has been in a mode of flying 'P only' for many years as have most
districts. We made the FAI class fit into the AMA formats, not the other
way around. Some strongly feel we are following the 'intent' of the FAI rules,
some don't. So, if we change the approach, where do we draw the line?
We 'kinda' follow the rules? We 'mostly' follow the rules? We
'fully' follow the rules? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The only black and white answer is 'fully' follow the rules, right
now. However, I don't believe it is the best near term answer for
D7. There are too many ramifications to that decision that will not be
positive for D7. I would suggest the approach could be to find a way to
'migrate' to that decision if the majority of FAI flyers think it is the right
direction. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>That migration could be a step this year, 2 steps next year, and full blown
local FAI 3 years from now, or some other agreed on timetable. For those
CDs that want to provide some F rounds this year, they could announce it
<u>well</u> in advance, and hopefully follow a format that is predictable for
this year, then current FAI contestants could decide if they want to participate
or not. No announcement of F with reasonable leadtime defaults to 'P
only'. The CD will have to determine if his offering will be positive or
negative to the turnout, etc. Toward the end of this year, maybe at the District
Championships, the FAI flyers could get together and hash out the format for
next year. Maybe we switch to full FAI rules at that time. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Remember, there are 2 things going on in this discussion. First, a
request to see if we can help our FAI guys that want to go to the Nats? My
vote is yes, let's find a way to help them without disrupting our D7
world. Second, does D7 need to address our FAI format approach to be
more in line with the other Districts? My vote is yes, let's make plans to
migrate there and get this behind us peacefully with as little negative impact
as possible this year. At that point, we can recognize FAI as the
'international' class it is intended to be, support our top pilots in their
inter-regional, national and international efforts. Meanwhile we can all
plan how we want to deal with that change on a personal basis.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I think Jon C is working on a proposed 'template' for this year. If
we can all find some way to make it work for this year, we have almost a year to
map out a more concrete plan for next year. We may have individually sacrifice
something this year in fairness, equal exposure, etc, but I think we will live
thru it. After all, the individual CDs are still going to be the final
vote. You have to choose whether you can live with the format. Those that fly F
may have an advantage, those that fly P may have an advantage, or maybe no one
has an advantage, who knows. F may not be offered at many contests,
but for those contests where it is, let's all just make it work.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>On a more personal note, I am going to start a campaign that gives me a 10%
advantage over Chip on all maneuvers, no matter what they are, no matter what
sequence. I would appreciate your vote for my proposal
Unfortunately, I will still get my head handed to me......</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Don Atwood</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<div>In a message dated 3/5/2010 4:06:08 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
<a href="mailto:joncarter60@comcast.net" target="_blank">joncarter60@comcast.net</a> writes:</div>
</div></div><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2"><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">Well, we have
certainly kicked off an interesting discussion!! </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">I would like to get a
broader range of opinions so I could use some help from some of you! Here is a
list of everyone who flew FAI at a D7 contest in
2009.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<table style="width: 88pt; border-collapse: collapse;" width="117" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border: 1pt solid windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p style="text-align: center;" class="MsoNormal" align="center"><b><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 8.5pt; font-weight: bold;">FAI</span></font></b></p>
</td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Don Atwood
**</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Greg Frohreich
****</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Jim Kimbro
**</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Bill
Sheets</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Chip Hyde
**</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Tom Messer
**</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Bill
Wallace</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Troy
Newman</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Steve Hannah
**</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Matt Kimbro
**</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Adrian
Wong</span></font><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">
**</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Frank Capone
****</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Derek Koopowitz
**</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Bob Obregon
****</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Chris Fitzsimmons
**</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Mark
Leseberg</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;">Craig
Blodgett</span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;"> </span></font></p></td></tr>
<tr style="min-height: 13.15pt;" height="18">
<td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 88pt; min-height: 13.15pt;" width="117" height="18" nowrap valign="bottom">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="1"><span style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 8.5pt;"> </span></font></p></td></tr></tbody></table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">17 total
pilots.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">9 opinions
received.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">3
pending.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">I have heard from
everyone on this list with two asterisks after their name. I have e-mailed the
guys who have 4 asterisks after their name. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">So that leaves, Bill
Sheets, Bill Wallace, Troy Newman, Mark Leseberg and Craig Blodgett. I do not
have e-mail info for these guys. If any of the rest of you do, could you
please forward a copy of the relevant e-mails from the D7 list to these guys
and ask them to contact me? My home e-mail is <a title="mailto:joncarter60@comcast.net" href="mailto:joncarter60@comcast.net" target="_blank">joncarter60@comcast.net</a>
</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">Thanks</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;">Jon
Carter</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: navy; font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;" class="MsoNormal" align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr width="100%" align="center" size="2">
</span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-family: Tahoma; font-size: 10pt;">
<a href="mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-dist7-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-dist7-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Tom Messer<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, March 05, 2010 3:24
PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> CA, AZ, HI, NV,
UT<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-dist7]
FAI: F sequence at local contests</span></font></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">The reason I say it that way is that doing so would
institute a change in how we do things now. It's not my idea NOT to fly F or
an unknown. I just don't because we don't do it. Simple. I started flying FAI
for a couple reasons that I won't bore anybody with here, but when I started
flying it we flew P solely. Just as you did when you flew FAI. So it's not
just me, the northern crew, or all of D7 who is "not really signing up for the
F3A event", that is just how we did it. We also don't do noise tests, or weigh
airplanes... but that's another issue.</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I agree with you though that if we do this, we should
do it whole hog and fly best 3 of 4 of P and best of 2 F... etc. But so far
the only proposal of those who want to do this was to slip it in and have some
fly this or some fly that. In my humble opinion, that is not right, not fair,
and it is not something we should do... it will lead to
problems.</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Other than that, we have heard from exactly 3 on this
list and on RCU from this district on this matter. Three out of the 15 that
flew in a D7 contest does not a majority make. If there are more, please speak
up!</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Tony you can, and should, do whatever you feel is best
for your contest... just as I will for mine. But since this is a change in
philosophy and practice for how the FAI event is held locally, I think it
should be up to us who fly it to decide... and for that matter, up to those
who want a change to prove their case.</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Frankly, the best way to do that is for them to hold
their own contest and show us how it should be done. Your contest could be the
first step in that process should you decide to go
forward.</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Tom M</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On Mar 5, 2010, at 2:53 PM, Tom Messer
wrote:</span></font></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br><br></span></font></p>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Sorry last message was sent unfinished. Standby for
the quick finale. </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Tom M</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br><br>Sent from my
iPhone</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>On Mar 5, 2010, at
2:51 PM, Tom Messer <<a title="mailto:thomas_messer@sbcglobal.net" href="mailto:thomas_messer@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">thomas_messer@sbcglobal.net</a>>
wrote:</span></font></p></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Thanks for your insight Tony, your comments and
views as a CD are important, but as you noted earlier you don't fly FAI
anymore so while your vote may not count, Your insight
does. </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">The purpose and intent of the three different
sequences for F3A is to systematically wittle down the number of contestants
at a lrge contest until you have one winner. P is is a rite of passage in
essence and if you are worthy you move on to fly F and so on... Obviously
you k ow this but my point is we don't have that problem in the district so
there is no need to employ all that... Unless we who fly F3A want
to. </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">The reason I say it that way is that doing so would
institute a change in how we do things now. It's not my idea NOT to fly F or
an unknown. I just don't because we don't do it. Simple. I started flying
FAI for a couple reasons that<br><br>Sent from my
iPhone</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>On Mar 5, 2010, at
1:27 PM, Anthony Frackowiak <<a title="mailto:frackowiak@sbcglobal.net" href="mailto:frackowiak@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank"></a><a title="mailto:frackowiak@sbcglobal.net" href="mailto:frackowiak@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">frackowiak@sbcglobal.net</a>>
wrote:</span></font></p></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" type="cite">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Tom,</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I'm going to answer your questions with my
viewpoint.</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I think the purpose of holding pattern contests is
to conduct as fair as possible a competition that will select the various
winners in each of the classes. The CD of each contest is obligated to run
the event within the rules as closely as possible. It is then up to each
of the entrants to a contest to decide if this is "fun" for them. I think
everyone may have different ideas of what is fun. For some, it is only fun
if they win. For others it is getting together with people of like
interests. For others it is seeing how they stack up to the other fliers.
IOW, just the act of competition is their enjoyment. I hope we can keep in
mind that pattern events are competitions. They are not fly-ins or
seminars. They are contests. I suggest if all someone wants to do is fly,
then stay at home. You'll get a whole lot more
flights.</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">The F3A event consists of two known patterns and
an unknown. I suggest that someone entering the F3A arena with the opinion
that all they are going to do is fly P is not really signing up to the F3A
event. I feel they if all they want to do is fly one pattern, then an AMA
class is a much better option. I know about all the possible problems we
could have if a substantial number of F3A pilots moved to Masters. I think
we would have to cross that bridge when it comes up. But the option is
there. It's not like we would be telling all the F3A pilots who don't want
to fly F to go away. I would just invite them to one of the others classes
that are offered.</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Keep in mind the why's for the F3A rules. In most
countries, when they have a pattern event, the only class that is offered
is F3A. They don't have the options that we do in the USA. And
in most other countries, they will only fly one model at a time. So a
local event has a very limited number of flights. With that limit, most
events can only fly P. That is exactly why the Note 1 I posted is in the
rules. In the USA, 6 rounds have become the
standard that we want at our local events. We fly multiple flight lines,
accepting the risk of mid-airs. We can much more easily fly
F.</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Years ago we had two patterns. A & B, then B
& C, then C & D, and so on. They were increasingly difficult but
not at the difference they are now. And of course, there was no unknown.
And we always flew both patterns at the local meets. It was good for
everyone. The pilots got in contest experience with both and the judges
saw the patterns. The F3A event has certainly changed since then. Some
like the changes and others, myself included, do not. But if you decide to
fly F3A, I feel you should commit to flying the full
event. </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I think it is important that as an NSRCA district
that conducts a District Championships, and selects Champions in each of
the classes, we should come up with an SOP for all the contests that fits
the rules as well as possible. And to throw this out, I think at the
District Championships, there should be P, F and at least one unknown. I
think an awful lot of people would be interested in seeing
that!</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Again, most of this is just my
opinion.</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Tony</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On Mar 5, 2010, at 12:11 PM, Tom Messer
wrote:</span></font></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br><br></span></font></p>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">No link is required, it's in the name... F stands
for finals and I think it's inferred as to what it's purpose is. We don't
have a finals for local or even district contests, so there's little need
to run the sequence for our historical
purposes. </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Your point is valid about best 3 of 4 of P, and
additional Fs as required... In my mind I think that is the only correct
way to do it if we decide that's what we want... It
is</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Spelled out in the rules and it for all to read
and we aren't holding one person to a different standard than another.
Personally I think that it's contrary to our culture and will affect
masters and possibly attendance with the
regulars. </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">What concerns me about this change, if it's made,
is that I'd we fly F at local contests, then we should do it at the
districts as well.. if we call that a true "championship", then how long
until we add unknowns? </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">What is our purpose here? Fun for all or prep for
a few?</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Tom M</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0pt; margin-left: 1in; margin-right: 1in;" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br><br><br></span></font> </p></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div>
<div>
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2">No virus found in this incoming message.<br>Checked
by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 9.0.733 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2724 -
Release Date: 03/05/10 05:26:00<br></font></p>
<p><font face="Arial" size="2"></font></p><br><br></div></div><div class="im">_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-dist7
mailing
list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-dist7@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-dist7@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7</a><br>
</div></font></blockquote></div></font></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-dist7 mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-dist7@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-dist7@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br>