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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The same pilots have been judging F3A for years and years and some
of them still don’t “get” the judging right. No matter how many times we’ve
had judging seminars and talked about the need to look for these deductions, it
seems to fall on deaf ears. There are a lot of impression judges out there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I don’t disagree with you Steve… just trying to point where I
feel our problems lie. Out pilots may want to use this as an opportunity to
improve for the Nats but they aren’t going to get it unless the judging keeps
up with the demands, and it hasn’t done so consistently over the years.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
nsrca-dist7-bounces@lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Steve Hannah<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 05, 2010 5:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT<br>
<b>Cc:</b> CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-dist7] FAI: F sequence at local contests<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>This will be short since I am on my iPhone. Ha ha<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Years ago I would have agreed with Chris and Derek. That was
before my IMAC days. Yes people can actually judge complex routines. Do they do
a good job at it? Not at first but they start to figure it out after a
while. Sometimes it takes a lot of judge coaching. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Second, flying the insanely complex unknowns in Advanced and
Unlimited taught me how to just suck it up and do my best. You don't need to burns
gallons of fuel or megawatts of electricity. You just go do your best. Sure
there will be guys flying F over and over. Good for them. The majority of us
are in the same boat with each other, we don't have time. It really will
make you a better flier to go try some things out of your comfort zone <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>As I have heard it stated through the years, Pattern fliers
can be seen as prima donnas. I hate the thought of that. One thing that
drives it home, in my opinion, is having folks be afraid to step up to the
plate and blow chunks all over the sky while they butcher the routine. They
don't want to look bad. Just get over it. Flying unknowns taught me how to do
that. Just go out, have fun, learn from it, and relax. So what if you
blow it. Most everyone else will too. You will, however, feel a lot of
accomplishment when you scores improve. And they will improve. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Yes this will benefit the guys going to the nats. I think
that is a good thing. Tighten up the judging for P (doesn't matter if we fly F
or not) and get our guys some contest exposure to F. It helps our
district. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Lastly, this should not be a "pilots choice".
That screws up a lot of things. I like the idea of one scored round of F.
Do well and you keep it. Blow it and it will be a drop. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Personally, I will suck at it but I don't care. I really
think it is good for the sport. I've already seen it draw interest from
my local IMAC and 3D crowd. It might help attract fliers. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Steve<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
On Mar 4, 2010, at 11:32 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons <<a
href="mailto:homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com">homeremodeling2003@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
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<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Ah, who cares about a flame suit.. lol<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I think it's fine, just shouldn't be mandatory.. If you
make it mandatory it takes away from the majority of FAI pilots. These
pilots (the majority) don't seem to want to fly F because they aren't
going to the nats and don't want to fly it. They are the one's supporting the
local contests right? So we should tell them you have to fly F so that the few
FAI pilots in our district that are going to the nats can fly it and get
judged? Judged by who? Who is qualified to judge it? Heck, I don't know how to
judge some of it. Could I guess my way through it? Sure, most likely. The
first couple of guys flying it would probably be scored easier than the last
guys IMO. What will happen to those pilots if we try to force this on
them? Are their batteries (if electric) large enough to fly the F sequence, or
does this create an extra burden on them to get bigger packs? I assume a glow
guy would have a big enough tank.. It will also create another burden by having
to setup different flight modes for the second sequence. It requires different
things of the model. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On the other side, if you force people to fly both, they
will become better pilots IMO. They may lose a plane or 2 (just kidding), but
eventually it will help their skills IMO. I know learning new sequences has
helped me tremendously. Another plus is that the guys who are judging will get
to be better judges IMO. Other districts are doing this, let's not forget.
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>So, I am planning on moving to FAI pretty soon. Do I
want to fly both?? No, not unless I can quit my job and go fly everyday so that
I can be competitive.. Which I'm pretty sure isn't going to happen..<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>My advice on the situation is if someone wants to fly it,
lets have the scoring in the computer so that it's possible. It can be done,
it's not that difficult.. But don't make those who "have a busy life
outside of pattern" have to learn another sequence. If that happens, FAI
pilots are going to really dislike having to sit in the judges seat for 3
rounds a contest.. Masters will get really huge.. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><em><b><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#0000BF'>Chris
</span></b></em><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Derek Koopowitz <<a
href="mailto:derekkoopowitz@comcast.net">derekkoopowitz@comcast.net</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> "CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT" <<a
href="mailto:nsrca-dist7@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-dist7@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thu, March 4, 2010 10:29:48 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-dist7] FAI: F sequence at local contests</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Flame suit on…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Are we really ready to let our judges loose on an F
schedule? I’m serious here… we have only a few very qualified
judges that are capable of judging these sequences and we’re now going to ask
them to judge an F schedule. I’ve seen way too many F3A pilots fly out of
the box without getting penalized, radii not flown consistently and not being
penalized, roles in lines not positioned properly and not being penalized and
then we’re going to ask these same judges to judge a sequence with 9 snaps,
multiple elements in a maneuver and expect the outcome to be fair?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I know I’ve just flipped this around into a judging issue but
that’s where I believe it lies. Several D7 pilots want to go to the Nats,
but as we’ve seen in past years, they have not been treated too kindly by the
Nats judges and that’s because they consistently win or place well here without
flying the sequence the way it should be flown, and when they get to the Nats
they get hammered.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Find good and consistent judges for F3A and then I’d say we have
a shot at flying the P and F schedules and having an outcome that is fair.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>And to answer your question, Jon… I intend to learn to fly the F
sequence as I think it’ll make me a better pilot. It’ll take a long time
before I even consider myself contest ready with it since I’m only now starting
to fly the P sequence and I’m just concentrating on the 1<sup>st</sup> part of
it at this time. Will I be ready to fly F any time soon – no. If
the option is available to fly F during a contest then I will more than likely
take it provided that I have practiced it and am comfortable with it.
That definitely won’t be in March, April or May I’m afraid… perhaps June
onwards. I think 4 rounds of P and 2 of F would be good with the best 3
of P and the best F to count. Now, for those pilots that don’t want to
fly F – they can fly all 6 rounds of P and count their best 4. I do not
think we should exclude anyone from flying.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href="mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-dist7-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>
[mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jon Carter<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 04, 2010 5:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> CA, AZ, HI, NV,UT<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-dist7] FAI: F sequence at local contests</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:
D7 FAI pilots and those D7 pilots who are
considering flying FAI at a D7 2010 contest.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:
Jon Carter NSRCA D7 VP</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
am soliciting input from all D7 FAI pilots on the question of whether to
attempt to fly some F rounds at local contests. This is currently being
discussed on RCU (I have attached a link to the discussion)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href="http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9548995/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm">http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9548995/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm</a>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
personally think that there are good points made on each “side” of the
discussion. I would like to get some feedback from all of you (D7 FAI pilots)
as to your preference. I know that not all of you read this list either but I
think that I have e-mail addresses for most of the current FAI pilots and I
know who you are! So, if I do not hear from some of you I will be sending out
some personal e-mails.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Let
me state my initial assumptions:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>1)
We do this to have
fun! </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>2)
At a local contest it is the CD’s discretion as to how he runs the show. The
important thing is that any deviations from the “standard” format be announced
well in advance.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>3)
A set of D7 guidelines to assist a CD with this decision and a mechanism to
handle it would be a “good” thing.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>4)
It should never be mandatory to fly the F sequence at a local contest. (This is
strongly implied in the FAI rulebook)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks
guys, I look forward to hearing from you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Jon
Carter</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-dist7 mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-dist7@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-dist7@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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