<div>They are now saying point 2 (the invert) has no line. Its instantaneously followed by the push..</div> <div> </div> <div>C<BR><BR><B><I>James Oddino <joddino@socal.rr.com></I></B> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.6001.18023" name=GENERATOR>Are you saying the knife edge is point 2 and must be the same length as point 1, that is, the level upright line that precedes knife edge? Doesn't sound right to me. <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>Jim O</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><BR> <DIV>On May 1, 2008, at 4:49 PM, Robert Gillespie wrote:<BR class=Apple-interchange-newline> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> <DIV>Scott,</DIV> <DIV>the FAI rule book is very clear on how the maneuver is to be done. </DIV> <DIV>"From upright, perorm 2 points of a 4-pt roll, and push immediately to a half outside loop. Perform a full roll, followed immediately by a half outside
loop, to exit inverted."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The outside loops must follow immediately after the 2/4 pt roll and roll.</DIV> <DIV>the lenght of the upper horizontal line (including roll) is equal tothe diameter of the half loops. </DIV> <DIV>The geometric shape is that of of a Double Immelmann.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a judge I will downgrade if the is any noticable level flight after after the 2nd point of the 2/4 and after the full roll on top. In other words when the plane stops rotating push.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bob G.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Scott <<A href="mailto:scottcov@comcast.net">scottcov@comcast.net</A>></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <DIV dir=ltr
align=left> </DIV> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=751352819-01052008>Don: </SPAN><FONT id=role_document face=Arial>I agree with your approach with the inverted portion of the 2 of 4 being equal to the knife edge. If the inverted section was not equal, then it is not really a 2 of 4. </FONT></DIV><FONT id=role_document face=Arial> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=751352819-01052008> sc - Several I have spoken with think there is NO inverted flight, you do the KE then push immediately. It's kind of like where the center of a 4 point is, by definition, it's the inverted portion of the maneuver, but in reality, it's not, it's at the transition of inverted to KE - When I spoke to the judging committee, they told me it's N-1 for the center - so a 4 point is defined as 4-1=3 and the 3rd point is the end of KE, so the center is at inverted flight if you define it this way. This is also defined
by a 'roll' - we all agree the center of a roll is inverted flight, and per the judging committee, a 4-point ROLL is a roll, and the center can't be different because it's a roll. If we use this as the criteria, 2 of 4, is a 2 point roll, 2-1 = 1 so the center is the middle of point 1, which is KE, so there is no inverted flight after the KE, it's KE then push. I just want to know what others think. It's silly to lose points if we don't all agree on how it should be done.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My understanding is that the geometrically, the maneuver is a square with half loops on either end.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since I don't judge FAI, let's hear from those that do. What are you looking for and why?<SPAN class=751352819-01052008> </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=751352819-01052008></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=751352819-01052008>sc- I just want to know how to fly this per those the Judge this. I don't care which way we define
it, but I do not want to have points deducted because the Judge wants to see and equal line segment when inverted, and another judge does not want to see any inverted flight.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=751352819-01052008></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=751352819-01052008>sc </SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 5/1/2008 9:55:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, <A href="mailto:scottcov@comcast.net">scottcov@comcast.net</A> writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma>Hey all you judges out there - and those that know.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma>I just want to verify that on the double M, the first FAI maneuver, after the 2 of 4, there is NO LINE PRESENT when inverted (this is the 2nd point of the 2 of 4) -
so basically you fly knife edge, roll to inverted and push immediately. Is this correct? Is this how it will be judged? Also, it's to be presented as a square with rounded ends - correct?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma>Personally, I like to fly it with the same length knife edge and the same length inverted, basically showing the 2 of 4, then push to the 1/2 outside loop - but I do not think this is how it's described or being judged - so I'd just like to know what the judges are looking for.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma>Thanks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Tahoma>Scott</FONT></DIV><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-dist7 mailing list<BR><A
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href="mailto:NSRCA-dist7@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-dist7@lists.nsrca.org</A><BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-dist7 mailing list<BR>NSRCA-dist7@lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR><DIV><STRONG><EM><FONT face="comic sans ms" color=#0000bf size=3>Chris </FONT></EM></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p> 
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