[NSRCA-dist7] Championship Points and Methods
Frackowiak Tony
frackowiak at sbcglobal.net
Tue May 3 19:38:40 AKDT 2016
Thank you Don. I agree completely with your points about being in good standing.
Tony Frackowiak
On May 3, 2016, at 6:49 AM, Donald Fox via NSRCA-dist7 wrote:
> I understand John’s stand but excluding points for district
> championship from any club is not the answer. I think John needs to
> sit down, take time and rethink his stance. I also think we are
> missing a valid point as to what a pilot in good standing is. Its not
> just being in good standing with the NSRCA and AMA but also to be in
> good standing with the club he or she is competing at. If you lack any
> of these three points, you are NOT a pilot in good standing. After
> all, we are thankful for the clubs that allow us to hold pattern
> contest at there facilities. There are more contest in D7 than in most
> other districts that a pilot in lesser standing can make up the
> difference (If expense and health allows). 4 contest, 3 contest, out
> for district or not, extra points for number of contestants, I don’t
> care. Its all good for me. I stand with Jamie on these issues. This
> discussion is getting almost as bad as the presidential race. Wake me
> when the bull shit and flies have left the field and these issues have
> been resolved. Maybe I’ll be back too. Till then, I’ll hang on to my
> fly swatter.
>
> Donald!
>
> On 5/2/16, John Gayer via NSRCA-dist7 <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>> As an annual participant in District 7 contests but not a district 7
>> resident, I offer the following suggestion.
>>
>> 1. It seems clear that any club has the right to ban an individual from
>> setting foot on the club premises. That does assume that the club has
>> the right to banish anyone. There are cases of clubs on publicly owned
>> land where that is not true.
>>
>> 2. It is also clear that the NSRCA has the duty to set up a fair and
>> equitable means of determining district championships as best they can
>> for their membership. The National has delegated this responsibility to
>> the DVPs.
>>
>> I suggest the DVP change the point accumulation rules to include the
>> following:
>>
>> 1) All AMA sanctioned club results will be included in the points
>> calculations
>>
>> 2) If a member in good standing with the AMA and the NSRCA is
>> banned from attending a qualified contest the following applies.
>>
>> If the banned member in good standing cannot attend a replacement
>> contest due to scheduling or financial hardship in order to meet the
>> maximum allowable contest results under the rules, then his points for
>> that missing contest will be the average of the contests he did attend.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't see John's position as an attempt to "punish" a club. I'd be
>> willing to bet most of the attendees attend more contests than the
>> limit. Certainly the many out of district contestants don't care about
>> the status of the district points. Hold a great contest and they will
>> all come (and they have).
>>
>> I'm sure the AMA would just look at the fact that the NSRCA did nothing
>> to prevent a contest being held or to invalidate the results obtained
>> and say "What's the problem?"
>>
>> John Gayer
>>
>> On 5/2/2016 9:26 PM, Chris Fitzsimmons via NSRCA-dist7 wrote:
>>> NSRCA district points can not be issued by a flying field club.. Only
>>> by an NSRCA event where all can fly..
>>>
>>> C
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 2, 2016, at 7:55 PM, JAMIE SCHOOLCRAFT via NSRCA-dist7
>>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> WELL SAID STEVE!!!!
>>>>
>>>> Take Care,
>>>> Jamie
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On May 2, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Steven Lampert via NSRCA-dist7
>>>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My problem with John’s position is that if a club, in accordance
>>>>> with its bylaws, acts to expel or ban an individual, then the NRCA’s
>>>>> decision to invalidate the points from an event hosted by that club
>>>>> effectively penalizes the club for taking action against such an
>>>>> individual. The club is thus left with the unpalatable options of
>>>>> either tolerating the presence of this individual, or having their
>>>>> contest effectively marginalized and transformed into a glorified
>>>>> fun fly.
>>>>>
>>>>> I really don’t question the authority of the NSRCA to exclude such a
>>>>> club from hosting an event that is conducted under the auspices of
>>>>> the NSRCA. However , within the context of a club sponsored event,
>>>>> I think the NSRCA may be exceeding the legitimate bounds of its
>>>>> authority by effectively punishing a club in this manner.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I can’t seem to determine is what is the legitimate scope and
>>>>> source of the NSRCA’s authority in this regard…
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:*NSRCA-dist7 [mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On
>>>>> Behalf Of *Peter Vogel via NSRCA-dist7
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, May 02, 2016 2:11 PM
>>>>> *To:* Chris Fitzsimmons; CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-dist7] Championship Points and Methods
>>>>>
>>>>> +1. Well said Chris!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Chris Fitzsimmons via NSRCA-dist7
>>>>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> No one is really missing out on any points or contest. Let's not
>>>>> forget the BMF contest was not even a contest till like a week ago.
>>>>> The guys up north are actually the main people missing out on a
>>>>> contest. Hence why the Fresno came in to replace it. And then BMF..
>>>>> Great to have two step up.
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue is the club isn't in charge of district points, they are
>>>>> (as Robert has pointed out) in charge of their affairs. And that's
>>>>> correct.. To me and most others it seems, NSRCA points are not BMFs
>>>>> affair. That belongs to the NSRCA. The NSRCA is an organization
>>>>> right? If we don't pay them we can't get district points right?
>>>>> Where is that confusing anyone?
>>>>>
>>>>> I fully understand BMF and their decision. I could care less who
>>>>> they ban... It's about district points and why it is or isn't fair.
>>>>> It's not rocket science and perhaps you should put the shoe on the
>>>>> other foot also. I tried it on.. I returned it to the rightful owner
>>>>> after thinking about it carefully from the other side.
>>>>>
>>>>> (Drops microphone) I'm out ✌️
>>>>>
>>>>> Just kidding. Lighten up ffs.. This is a hobby...
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 2, 2016, at 9:46 AM, Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-dist7
>>>>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So, with the retaining of the requirement for 4 contests for the
>>>>> Champs, and the elimination of points from the upcoming BMF
>>>>> contest, which was just to try to help out after your contest
>>>>> was cancelled, plus no points for all BMF contests in the
>>>>> future, it will now be even harder for people of more limited
>>>>> means to compete for the District Champs. How does that make it
>>>>> a "level playing field" for them?
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess it's no problem when you have the means to go to all the
>>>>> events you want, along with the Nats each year. Not only
>>>>> financially but when you can always travel in a group sharing
>>>>> the load. Not often the case when you're just getting in to
>>>>> pattern. I'm also lucky to have good friends that help me attend
>>>>> contests. Otherwise I could only go to contests that I run or I
>>>>> can return home easily to stay the night.
>>>>>
>>>>> And people wonder why the entrant counts at our contests
>>>>> continue to dwindle. Or why there are 19 Masters in a 35 entrant
>>>>> contest.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still waiting for my return call, Jon.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 2, 2016, at 8:24 AM, joncarter60 via NSRCA-dist7 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I also am in agreement with Dale's points. It is simply about
>>>>> having a "level playing field" for the district championship.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jon Carter
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Original message --------
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Budd Engineering via NSRCA-dist7
>>>>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Date: 5/2/2016 8:15 AM (GMT-08:00)
>>>>>
>>>>> To: Olstinske Dale <sanjosedale at gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:sanjosedale at gmail.com>>, "CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT"
>>>>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] Championship Points and Methods
>>>>>
>>>>> +1
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On May 2, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Olstinske Dale via NSRCA-dist7
>>>>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>> <mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I love the BMF contests, one of the highlights of the year. I
>>>>> would always attend in any event, but I support John’s decision
>>>>> about district championship points. I really doubt the
>>>>> attendance would be hurt in anyway, just my opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dale
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On May 1, 2016, at 4:20 PM, John Bentley via NSRCA-dist7
>>>>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>> <mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is NOT an attack on the Bear Mountain Club/Tony/Leon,
>>>>> (read my original
>>>>>>> post) It is a statement of policy, in that every and ALL
>>>>> members of the
>>>>>>> NSRCA and AMA should be able to compete in the district
>>>>> championships. Did
>>>>>>> anyone actually read my proposal???? . There should for
>>>>> pilots with the
>>>>>>> exception of legal actions due to NSRCA or AMA never be an
>>>>> exclusion to this
>>>>>>> policy.
>>>>>>> I have never said that anyone could not have a contest,
>>>>> however for that
>>>>>>> contest to be valid there can be no exclusions of pilots that
>>>>> are in good
>>>>>>> standing with AMA and NSRCA There will be NO more personal
>>>>> attacks nor more
>>>>>>> personal vendettas. This is only about out district policy
>>>>> and nothing else.
>>>>>>> John Bentley
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 30 Apr 2016 04:58:39 PM MST
>>>>>>> From: John Bentley via NSRCA-dist7
>>>>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>>>>> To: <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>> <mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>>>>> Subject: [NSRCA-dist7] Championship Points and Methods
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All NSRCA D7 Members. It has come to my attention that
>>>>> members in good
>>>>>>> standing with AMA and NSRCA are unable to fly at a contest
>>>>> site. Because of
>>>>>>> this, from this point no district championship points will
>>>>> be assigned at
>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>> contest that excludes a member that is in good standing with
>>>>> AMA and NSRCA.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now on the discussion about the Championship. The overall
>>>>> consensus is that
>>>>>>> there should be a single Championship and that Championship
>>>>> should move to
>>>>>>> different sites within D7. In all fairness since 4 contests
>>>>> have been flown
>>>>>>> there will be no change in how points are determined for the
>>>>> 2016 contest
>>>>>>> season.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have heard lots of talk on how the points are awarded .
>>>>> Here is my thought
>>>>>>> in how the contest(S) could be more competitive:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Use 3 contests for qualification. Each pilot will be
>>>>> awarded 33 points for
>>>>>>> attendance plus 1 point for each person they beat in the
>>>>> contest.
>>>>>>> One contest can be used from out of district however that
>>>>> contest can not
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> any points given that is larger than the largest D7 contest
>>>>> attended.As an
>>>>>>> example if a pilot attended the NATS and beat 30 people but
>>>>> their largest
>>>>>>> class in D7 was 18 they could only be awarded 18 points extra
>>>>> not 30.
>>>>>>> 2. The championship Contest will count as 100 points plus 1
>>>>> point for each
>>>>>>> person beat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3.The method for the calculation will be announced no later
>>>>> than Jan 1 2017
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 mailing list
>>>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 mailing list
>>>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 mailing list
>>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 mailing list
>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 mailing list
>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 mailing list
>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 mailing list
>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>>>>>
>>>>> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>>>>>
>>>>> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>>>>>
>>>>> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 mailing list
>>>>> NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> NSRCA-dist7 mailing list
>>>> NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org <mailto:NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NSRCA-dist7 mailing list
>>> NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-dist7 mailing list
> NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7
More information about the NSRCA-dist7
mailing list