[NSRCA-dist7] Championship Points and Methods

Mon May 2 19:58:33 AKDT 2016

There are some things that you are not considering and are incorrectly stating. I agree that each of the NSRCA districts are free to develop whatever system they want to use. Heck, some districts that are close the Muncie or have small NSRCA memberships don't bother with a District Champs.  

In this district over the years the system developed was to use the results from AMA sanctioned pattern contests held in D7. Last year Mersh changed it to allow using the results from 2 out of district contests. I don't think it was ever stated but I am assuming that they must also be AMA sanctioned.

Please note, the contest has to be AMA sanctioned and each CD should be trying to run their contest as close to the AMA rules as possible. Am I right about that?

Many are incorrectly interpreting the AMA General rules to say that any AMA member MUST be allowed entry to a contest. It is my opinion and I believe I have used enough examples, along with actual conversations with the AMA, that a CD is not required to do that. He is bound by the regulations of the club where he is conducting the contest. So it is within the regulations to not allow entry by an AMA member that has been banned from a field.

SInce the NSRCA has been using the results from AMA sanctioned contests, to decide to suddenly not use the results from one specific clubs AMA sanctioned events that must be run within all the AMA regulations is in my opinion unfair to that club.

The only contest that is currently only run by the NSRCA is the Nats. But even then the NSRCA is limited to what is correct by the AMA.

So, it's my opinion that the results from any properly AMA sanctioned contest that is run according to the AMA rules should be used by this NSRCA district in awarding the District Championship. To do otherwise is tarnishing the reputation of the NSRCA. But I agree, they are certainly free to do so. And I am free to decide if I want to belong to such an organization.

Tony Frackowiak

On May 2, 2016, at 8:26 PM, Chris Fitzsimmons via NSRCA-dist7 wrote:

> NSRCA district points can not be issued by a flying field club.. Only by an NSRCA event where all can fly.. 
> 
> C
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 2, 2016, at 7:55 PM, JAMIE SCHOOLCRAFT via NSRCA-dist7 <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> 
>> WELL SAID STEVE!!!!
>> 
>> Take Care,
>> Jamie
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On May 2, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Steven Lampert via NSRCA-dist7 <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> My problem with John’s position is that if a club, in accordance with its bylaws, acts to expel or ban an individual, then the NRCA’s decision to invalidate the points from an event hosted by that club effectively penalizes the club for taking action against such an individual.  The club is thus left with the unpalatable options of either tolerating the presence of this individual, or having their contest effectively marginalized and transformed into a glorified fun fly.
>>> I really don’t question the authority of the NSRCA to exclude such a club from hosting an event that is conducted under the auspices of the NSRCA.  However , within the context of a club sponsored event, I think the NSRCA may be exceeding the legitimate bounds of its authority by effectively punishing a club in this manner.
>>>  
>>> What I can’t seem to determine is what is the legitimate scope and source of the NSRCA’s authority in this regard…
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: NSRCA-dist7 [mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Peter Vogel via NSRCA-dist7
>>> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2016 2:11 PM
>>> To: Chris Fitzsimmons; CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] Championship Points and Methods
>>>  
>>> +1.  Well said Chris!
>>>  
>>> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Chris Fitzsimmons via NSRCA-dist7 <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>> No one is really missing out on any points or contest. Let's not forget the BMF contest was not even a contest till like a week ago. The guys up north are actually the main people missing out on a contest. Hence why the Fresno came in to replace it. And then BMF.. Great to have two step up. 
>>>  
>>> The issue is the club isn't in charge of district points, they are (as Robert has pointed out) in charge of their affairs. And that's correct.. To me and most others it seems, NSRCA points are not BMFs affair. That belongs to the NSRCA.  The NSRCA is an organization right? If we don't pay them we can't get district points right? Where is that confusing anyone? 
>>>  
>>> I fully understand BMF and their decision. I could care less who they ban... It's about district points and why it is or isn't fair.  It's not rocket science and perhaps you should put the shoe on the other foot also. I tried it on.. I returned it to the rightful owner after thinking about it carefully from the other side. 
>>>  
>>> (Drops microphone) I'm out ✌️
>>>  
>>> Just kidding. Lighten up ffs.. This is a hobby... 
>>>  
>>> Chris
>>>  
>>>   
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On May 2, 2016, at 9:46 AM, Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-dist7 <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So, with the retaining of the requirement for 4 contests for the Champs, and the elimination of points from the upcoming BMF contest, which was just to try to help out after your contest was cancelled, plus no points for all BMF contests in the future, it will now be even harder for people of more limited means to compete for the District Champs. How does that make it a "level playing field" for them?
>>>  
>>> I guess it's no problem when you have the means to go to all the events you want, along with the Nats each year. Not only financially but when you can always travel in a group sharing the load. Not often the case when you're just getting in to pattern. I'm also lucky to have good friends that help me attend contests. Otherwise I could only go to contests that I run or I can return home easily to stay the night. 
>>>  
>>> And people wonder why the entrant counts at our contests continue to dwindle. Or why there are 19 Masters in a 35 entrant contest.
>>>  
>>> Still waiting for my return call, Jon.
>>>  
>>> Tony
>>>   
>>> On May 2, 2016, at 8:24 AM, joncarter60 via NSRCA-dist7 wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I also am in agreement with Dale's points. It is simply about having a "level playing field" for the district championship.
>>>  
>>> Jon Carter
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Budd Engineering via NSRCA-dist7 <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> Date: 5/2/2016 8:15 AM (GMT-08:00)
>>> To: Olstinske Dale <sanjosedale at gmail.com>, "CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT" <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] Championship Points and Methods
>>>  
>>> +1
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> > On May 2, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Olstinske Dale via NSRCA-dist7 <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > I love the BMF contests, one of the highlights of the year. I would always attend in any event, but I support John’s decision about district championship points. I really doubt the attendance would be hurt in anyway, just my opinion.
>>> > 
>>> > Dale
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> >> On May 1, 2016, at 4:20 PM, John Bentley via NSRCA-dist7 <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
>>> >> 
>>> >> This is NOT an attack on the Bear Mountain Club/Tony/Leon, (read my original
>>> >> post)  It is a statement of policy, in that  every  and ALL members of the
>>> >> NSRCA and AMA should be able to compete in the district championships.  Did
>>> >> anyone actually read my proposal???? . There should for pilots with the
>>> >> exception of legal actions due to NSRCA or AMA never be an exclusion to this 
>>> >> policy.
>>> >> I have never said that anyone could not have a contest, however for that
>>> >> contest to be valid there can be no exclusions of pilots that are in good
>>> >> standing with AMA and NSRCA  There will be NO more personal attacks  nor more
>>> >> personal vendettas.  This is only about out district policy and nothing else.
>>> >> John Bentley 
>>> >> 
>>> >> 30 Apr 2016 04:58:39 PM MST
>>> >> From: John Bentley via NSRCA-dist7 <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> >> To: <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> >> Subject: [NSRCA-dist7] Championship Points and Methods
>>> >> 
>>> >> All NSRCA D7 Members. It has come to my attention that members in good
>>> >> standing with AMA and NSRCA are unable to fly at a contest site. Because of
>>> >> this, from this point  no district championship points will be assigned at
>>> >> any
>>> >> contest that excludes a member that is in good standing with AMA and NSRCA.
>>> >> 
>>> >> Now on the discussion about the Championship. The overall consensus is that
>>> >> there should be a single Championship and that Championship should move to
>>> >> different sites within D7. In all fairness  since 4 contests have been flown
>>> >> there will be no change in how points are determined for the 2016 contest
>>> >> season.
>>> >> 
>>> >> I have heard lots of talk on how the points are awarded . Here is my thought
>>> >> in how the contest(S) could be more competitive:
>>> >> 
>>> >> 1. Use 3 contests for qualification. Each pilot will be awarded 33 points for
>>> >> attendance plus 1 point for each person they beat in the contest.
>>> >> One contest can be used from out of district however that contest can not
>>> >> have
>>> >> any points given that is larger than the largest D7 contest attended.As an
>>> >> example if a pilot attended the NATS and beat 30 people but their largest
>>> >> class in D7 was 18 they could only be awarded 18 points extra not 30. 
>>> >> 2. The championship Contest will  count as 100 points plus 1 point for each
>>> >> person beat.
>>> >> 
>>> >> 3.The method for the calculation will be announced no later than Jan 1 2017
>>> >> 
>>> >> 
>>> >> John
>>> >> 
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>>> >> 
>>> >> 
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>>>  
>>> --
>>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>>> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>>> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>>> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
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