[NSRCA-dist7] Championship Points and Methods

Mon May 2 18:10:25 AKDT 2016

How many times do I have to say district points are based off of the nsrca and not off the club? Lol

Or I will just hold 3 contests at my field and ban everyone who can beat me! That's where this could go.. See the point. 

Chris

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 2, 2016, at 6:58 PM, Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-dist7 <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org> wrote:
> 
> Nonsense. That is not a CD's authority at all. The CD cannot override any club regulations. They are only responsible for conducting the contest as much as possible within the AMA rules for the competition event they are conducting. And there are no AMA rules that say that the CD must allow any AMA member into the contest. Here are the General rules that apply,
> 
> 4.Who May Compete
> Only those holding a current membership with the Academy of Model Aeronautics may compete in sanctioned competition as outlined above. The Contest Director or his representative shall verify the AMA Membership of each contestant to determine the contestant’s eligibility to compete.
> 
> 4.1. An eligible flier is one who holds a current membership with the Academy of Model Aeronautics.
> 
> Please note that these rules say only those who MAY compete are those with a current AMA membership. Nowhere in the AMA General rules does it say the CD MUST allow any AMA member to compete in the contest.
> 
> Also, a CD does not supersede any other regulations, or for that matter, any other positions of authority that may be held within a club. For instance, if the CD was improperly running the contest from the point of safety, the Club's Safety Officer could take over and ensure the safety of the event. As a long time CD and over 14 years as a Club Officer in the position of President, Vice-President, Treasurer and Safety Officer and an AMA Leader Member in 3 Categories I am familiar with these regulations. Let me familiarize you with this one,
> 
> 17. Disqualification/Exclusion
> Contestants may be disqualified or excluded from any or all events if guilty of an infraction of contest rules, unsportsmanlike or discourteous conduct, infraction of good safety practice or procedure, or conduct detrimental to the well-being of model aviation. If, after entry in an event, a contestant is found to be ineligible to compete in that event, all of the contestant’s flights in that event are to be canceled and any awards won in that event returned. If judged guilty of willful misconduct, the contestant shall lose all claims to awards, and shall be liable to expulsion from the contest site. Repeated or particularly vicious acts of willful misconduct may result in suspension or revocation of the contestant’s model flier’s sporting license or in expulsion of the contestant from membership in the AMA. If action is taken to suspend the contestant’s model flier’s sporting license, the contestant shall have 14 days after notification in which to present in writing why such action should not be taken. Any action taken to revoke a contestant’s model flier’s sporting license or to expel the contestant from membership in the AMA shall be taken in accordance with the notification and hearing procedures set forth in Article V. Section 3 of the AMA Bylaws.
> 
> Please quote the regulations in the AMA Competition Rules that support your viewpoint.
> 
> We may have been able to avoid reaching this point if you had returned my calls in a timely manner or when you did call me you did not do so in anger, using profanity and hanging up on me.
> 
> Tony Frackowiak
> 
>> On May 2, 2016, at 6:30 PM, John Bentley via NSRCA-dist7 wrote:
>> 
>> Here are some  thoughts:
>> When a CD runs a contest then he/she is responsible for all aspects of the
>> contest, safety, pilot conduct, etc. Basically the CD takes over the field and
>> is entrusted by the club to manage the event. The CD should, at the pilots
>> meeting, define expectation and make it clear that un-sportsman like conduct
>> will result in expulsion from the event. If the club has banned a pilot then
>> that pilot would not be able to practice during open field time when the CD is
>> not in charge but when the active contest is running the CD can and should
>> allow any AMA pilot to fly so long as the CD’s expectation are met. If the
>> pilot violates the rules during the event then the CD has the duty to take
>> action. 
>> 
>> A particular clubs challenges that result in pilot’s being banned should not
>> interfere the the pilot’s ability to compete regionally or nationally. Clubs
>> always have the option of not holding pattern contests if they intent to
>> guarantee the banned will pilot never fly at the field. When you hold a
>> contest you open the field to pilots from all over the country and the world,
>> you never know what you will get and you could get a pilot that had been
>> banned from other fields perhaps for even more egregious reasons. 
>> John
>> 
>> 
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> Received: Mon, 02 May 2016 06:10:44 PM MST
>> From: Steven Lampert via NSRCA-dist7 <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>> To: "CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT" <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] Championship Points and Methods
>> 
>> My problem with John’s position is that if a club, in accordance with its
>> bylaws, acts to expel or ban an individual, then the NRCA’s decision to
>> invalidate the points from an event hosted by that club effectively penalizes
>> the club for taking action against such an individual.  The club is thus left
>> with the unpalatable options of either tolerating the presence of this
>> individual, or having their contest effectively marginalized and transformed
>> into a glorified fun fly.
>> I really don’t question the authority of the NSRCA to exclude such a club
>> from hosting an event that is conducted under the auspices of the NSRCA. 
>> However , within the context of a club sponsored event, I think the NSRCA may
>> be exceeding the legitimate bounds of its authority by effectively punishing a
>> club in this manner.
>> 
>> What I can’t seem to determine is what is the legitimate scope and source of
>> the NSRCA’s authority in this regard…
>> 
>> 
>> From: NSRCA-dist7 [mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
>> Peter Vogel via NSRCA-dist7
>> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2016 2:11 PM
>> To: Chris Fitzsimmons; CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] Championship Points and Methods
>> 
>> +1.  Well said Chris!
>> 
>> On Mon, May 2, 2016 at 11:53 AM, Chris Fitzsimmons via NSRCA-dist7
>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>> No one is really missing out on any points or contest. Let's not forget the
>> BMF contest was not even a contest till like a week ago. The guys up north are
>> actually the main people missing out on a contest. Hence why the Fresno came
>> in to replace it. And then BMF.. Great to have two step up.
>> 
>> The issue is the club isn't in charge of district points, they are (as Robert
>> has pointed out) in charge of their affairs. And that's correct.. To me and
>> most others it seems, NSRCA points are not BMFs affair. That belongs to the
>> NSRCA.  The NSRCA is an organization right? If we don't pay them we can't get
>> district points right? Where is that confusing anyone?
>> 
>> I fully understand BMF and their decision. I could care less who they ban...
>> It's about district points and why it is or isn't fair.  It's not rocket
>> science and perhaps you should put the shoe on the other foot also. I tried it
>> on.. I returned it to the rightful owner after thinking about it carefully
>> from the other side.
>> 
>> (Drops microphone) I'm out ✌️
>> 
>> Just kidding. Lighten up ffs.. This is a hobby...
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On May 2, 2016, at 9:46 AM, Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-dist7
>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>> So, with the retaining of the requirement for 4 contests for the Champs, and
>> the elimination of points from the upcoming BMF contest, which was just to try
>> to help out after your contest was cancelled, plus no points for all BMF
>> contests in the future, it will now be even harder for people of more limited
>> means to compete for the District Champs. How does that make it a "level
>> playing field" for them?
>> 
>> I guess it's no problem when you have the means to go to all the events you
>> want, along with the Nats each year. Not only financially but when you can
>> always travel in a group sharing the load. Not often the case when you're just
>> getting in to pattern. I'm also lucky to have good friends that help me attend
>> contests. Otherwise I could only go to contests that I run or I can return
>> home easily to stay the night.
>> 
>> And people wonder why the entrant counts at our contests continue to dwindle.
>> Or why there are 19 Masters in a 35 entrant contest.
>> 
>> Still waiting for my return call, Jon.
>> 
>> Tony
>> 
>> On May 2, 2016, at 8:24 AM, joncarter60 via NSRCA-dist7 wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I also am in agreement with Dale's points. It is simply about having a "level
>> playing field" for the district championship.
>> 
>> Jon Carter
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 6 edge, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Budd Engineering via NSRCA-dist7
>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>>
>> Date: 5/2/2016 8:15 AM (GMT-08:00)
>> To: Olstinske Dale <sanjosedale at gmail.com<mailto:sanjosedale at gmail.com>>, "CA,
>> AZ, HI, NV, UT"
>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] Championship Points and Methods
>> 
>> +1
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On May 2, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Olstinske Dale via NSRCA-dist7
>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I love the BMF contests, one of the highlights of the year. I would always
>> attend in any event, but I support John’s decision about district
>> championship points. I really doubt the attendance would be hurt in anyway,
>> just my opinion.
>>> 
>>> Dale
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On May 1, 2016, at 4:20 PM, John Bentley via NSRCA-dist7
>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> This is NOT an attack on the Bear Mountain Club/Tony/Leon, (read my
>> original
>>>> post)  It is a statement of policy, in that  every  and ALL members of the
>>>> NSRCA and AMA should be able to compete in the district championships.
>> Did
>>>> anyone actually read my proposal???? . There should for pilots with the
>>>> exception of legal actions due to NSRCA or AMA never be an exclusion to
>> this
>>>> policy.
>>>> I have never said that anyone could not have a contest, however for that
>>>> contest to be valid there can be no exclusions of pilots that are in good
>>>> standing with AMA and NSRCA  There will be NO more personal attacks  nor
>> more
>>>> personal vendettas.  This is only about out district policy and nothing
>> else.
>>>> John Bentley
>>>> 
>>>> 30 Apr 2016 04:58:39 PM MST
>>>> From: John Bentley via NSRCA-dist7
>> <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>> To: <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org<mailto:nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>>
>>>> Subject: [NSRCA-dist7] Championship Points and Methods
>>>> 
>>>> All NSRCA D7 Members. It has come to my attention that members in good
>>>> standing with AMA and NSRCA are unable to fly at a contest site. Because
>> of
>>>> this, from this point  no district championship points will be assigned at
>>>> any
>>>> contest that excludes a member that is in good standing with AMA and
>> NSRCA.
>>>> 
>>>> Now on the discussion about the Championship. The overall consensus is
>> that
>>>> there should be a single Championship and that Championship should move to
>>>> different sites within D7. In all fairness  since 4 contests have been
>> flown
>>>> there will be no change in how points are determined for the 2016 contest
>>>> season.
>>>> 
>>>> I have heard lots of talk on how the points are awarded . Here is my
>> thought
>>>> in how the contest(S) could be more competitive:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. Use 3 contests for qualification. Each pilot will be awarded 33 points
>> for
>>>> attendance plus 1 point for each person they beat in the contest.
>>>> One contest can be used from out of district however that contest can not
>>>> have
>>>> any points given that is larger than the largest D7 contest attended.As an
>>>> example if a pilot attended the NATS and beat 30 people but their largest
>>>> class in D7 was 18 they could only be awarded 18 points extra not 30.
>>>> 2. The championship Contest will  count as 100 points plus 1 point for
>> each
>>>> person beat.
>>>> 
>>>> 3.The method for the calculation will be announced no later than Jan 1
>> 2017
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> John
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>> 
>> --
>> Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training
>> Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark
>> Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X
>> Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)
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