[NSRCA-dist7] FAI in D7

Wed Jan 4 20:36:03 AKST 2012

Hi Jon,

I think one point is that, unless I'm mistaken, for the last two years  
you as the D7 VP has made a recommendation on what CD's should do at  
their events with F3A. It would seem that we would be better off with  
a standardized system to make accumulating points for the D7 F3A  
Championship equitable. Of course each individual CD can make their  
own decision.

I hope we can grow interest in Classic. It certainly is a lot of fun!

Later,

Tony

On Jan 4, 2012, at 9:21 PM, Jon Carter wrote:

> Tony - It seems like there is more interest in splitting Masters  
> than doing
> anything with FAI! I will look in the K-Factor to see what has been  
> done in
> Illinois in regards to large masters' class attendance. We can see  
> if they
> have a work-able solution.
>
> In terms of national issues and larger "pattern" related issues I am  
> just
> trying to discuss things that we, as a district, have some measure of
> control over. I do not think that we should change sequences or  
> invent our
> own at our local level. Unknowns at the District Championships do  
> come under
> the category of what we can do. I have discussed them previously  
> with some
> of the FAI pilots and have gotten slightly mixed messages. If the  
> majority
> of D7 FAI pilots really want to fly an Unknown at the District  
> Championships
> I personally don't see a problem with it. Obviously there are some  
> details
> about who designs it and how is it scored in terms of the contest  
> that would
> need to be worked out. Anyway, we can discuss that separately.
>
> As I indicated in another thread about this topic every CD has the  
> freedom
> to run his own event to the rules as he sees them. I will make a  
> decision
> about how the Hollister contest and the 2012 District Championships  
> will be
> run. Each individual CD will do likewise.
>
> Also as you pointed out this is a possible scenario. Maybe 2012 will  
> be
> different and we won't have an issue. As you and Robert pointed out  
> this
> would not be such a potential problem if we were not so "top-heavy".  
> That is
> certainly true but is again somewhat beyond the scope of this  
> discussion.
>
> Perhaps we should all just go back and fly Classic Pattern and we  
> can spread
> out across all of the classes more evenly!!! (We'd probably have  
> more fun!)
>
> Thanks for the input and thoughts,
>
> Jon Carter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony  
> Frackowiak
> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 10:54 PM
> To: CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] FAI in D7
>
> Hi Jon,
>
> What you are proposing with a "silver" F3A and a "gold" F3A is in fact
> creating a new class. You're going to be giving away awards for it.
> Call it whatever you want, class or event. It's the same thing.
>
> I have seen other districts split the Masters class in to two groups.
> The judges then have a break in between judging the two groups. You
> can check with the Illinois district for details because that is where
> I have seen reports in the K-Factor about it. Peter has been giving
> some other possibilities. Also, you have admitted that a lot of this
> is about what might happen, not what really has happened regularly  
> yet.
>
> You brought up flying Unknowns at the Districts in your first email so
> I was just giving my opinion regarding that possibility. I guess I
> shouldn't have. Sorry.
>
> I've gone over the results of 2009 and compared them to 2011. Here are
> the pilots who flew in an F3A event in D7 this year under the
> situation of flying both P and F.
>
> Matt Kimbro
> Jim Kimbro
> Steve Hannah
> Don Atwood
> Bill Sheets
> Adrian Wong
> Andrew Jesky
>
> Matt Kimbro has stated what he would like to do. I can't speak for the
> rest but I would guess since they competed in the P and F format they
> would want to continue. But maybe they will chime in.
>
> Here are the pilots who flew in an F3A contest in D7 in 2009 but did
> not in 2011. I'm pretty sure Chip and Mark would want to fly F and the
> others have expressed the opinion that P and F should continue,
>
> Chip Hyde
> Mark Leseberg
> Derek Koopowitz
> Troy Newman
> Chris Fitzsimmons
>
> Bill Wallace has said he is going to fly F3A but only P and will only
> offer P at his two contests. That is certainly his right as a CD and I
> respect that.
>
> Here are the pilots who flew F3A in 2009 but did not enter either F3A
> or Masters in 2011.
>
> Tom Messer
> Dave Reaville
> Craig Blodgett
> Gary McClellan
>
> Again, I can't speak for them so I don't know the reasons why they
> have quit entering pattern events in D7. Tom seemed to be having a lot
> of fun with helicopters at Fresno but I do know when this subject was
> discussed a while back he was not for adding F.
>
> That leaves these four pilots who actually moved to Masters from F3A
> since 2009,
>
> Greg Frohreich
> Frank Capone
> Bob Obregon
> Jarvis Johnson
>
> I have not talked to these people about this subject. Jarvis flew both
> Advanced and Masters this year, so I don't think he would fly F3A P.
> So that leaves three who might fly F3A P only. Maybe we will hear from
> them. I hope so because they are what this whole thing is about.
>
> I brought up the problems I see Nationally with the Pattern event as
> others did in their emails. I see them as the real problem here,
> because if we had more entrants in every class rather then the top
> heavy situation we have now this problem would cease to exist. Again,
> I guess I shouldn't have. Sorry.
>
> I have CD'd a number of contests so I am completely aware of the
> problems with judging. I just don't think your proposal will solve  
> them.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Tony Frackowiak
>
>
>
> On Jan 3, 2012, at 9:25 PM, Jon Carter wrote:
>
>> Comments in line
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony
>> Frackowiak
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 5:49 PM
>> To: CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] FAI in D7
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I have felt before and I still feel that F3A Pilots should be  
>> prepared
>> to fly both. If not, fly Masters. As a CD I am totally against
>> creating classes in this District that are not also National. So I am
>> completely against this idea of a "silver" and "gold' F3A classes.
>>
>> [I don't see this as "creating" a class that is not National. That
>> is what
>> the proposed Expert class was. This is flying P as an event and
>> flying P and
>> F as an event.]
>>
>>
>> There are other ways to handle the overload of Masters if that is
>> indeed what happens.
>>
>> [I would love to hear your ideas]
>>
>> I also feel that our District Championships in
>> F3A should include Unknown rounds. How in the world does an F3A pilot
>> prepare to fly Unknowns with no competitions including them?
>>
>> [That is something that we have considered for the districts and
>> maybe we
>> could get some feedback from our FAI pilots. It's not really
>> relevant to
>> this discussion.]
>>
>>
>> As to the drop off in F3A pilots, I went back and looked at who was
>> flying in 2009, 2010 and 2011. I think that the drop in F3A
>> competitors are for a lot of other reasons then just having to fly
>> both patterns.
>>
>> [Well, it's not exhaustive but I know that 4 pilots went to Masters
>> from FAI
>> when we added F. You might say that 4 is not that big a number but
>> when we
>> have FAI classes in 2011 with from 0 to 2 pilots I think 4 is
>> significant]
>>
>> I agree with much of what Chris said. The real problem is not F3A or
>> Masters. It's Sportsman and Intermediate. If pattern and hence the
>> NSRCA does not start to try to do something to increase the interest
>> in flying pattern, it really doesn't matter. We are a dying event.
>> Making Advanced and Masters more difficult is also not a solution.  
>> I'm
>> starting to help Jean Greear work on Intermediate. That in itself  
>> is a
>> huge jump from Sportsman. What will making Advanced more difficult do
>> to someone in Intermediate?
>>
>> The problem that I see in a very big way lately is that the powers to
>> be who are controlling the event, and by that I mean the NSRCA and  
>> the
>> Contest Board, are set in their ways and are apparently happy with  
>> the
>> status quo. Any significant change that could really help
>> participation in pattern gets shot down very quickly. Until this
>> changes we need to just be ready for more of the same.
>>
>> [My raising this point is not to discuss at a National level the
>> problems of
>> pattern but to possibly try out some creative solutions in our local
>> district to make our contests more fun and more competitive]
>>
>> BTW, I have been flying P-13 and starting to work on F-13. P-13 is  a
>> much better pattern then P-11 but it is definitely more difficult  
>> then
>> the current Masters pattern. F-13 is crazy hard. It will take a big
>> commitment to fly F-13 well. But if a current F3A pilot or someone
>> thinking of flying F3A can't handle it, then work to get that event
>> changed or fly an AMA class.
>>
>> Tony Frackowiak
>>
>>
>> [Jon Carter]
>>
>>
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