[NSRCA-dist7] Fwd: To all D7 pattern pilots

Tue Jan 3 20:03:17 AKST 2012

Troy - It will be good to see you at contests again! Say hi to Jenny.

Take care,

Jon Carter

  _____  

From: nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Troy Newman
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 4:09 PM
To: CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] Fwd: To all D7 pattern pilots

As a F3A pilot that will be attending events again this year, I would like
to see "F" flown. 

Troy A. Newman

Able Balance, Arizona

       Office  623-980-3144

       Cell   720-939-0550

From: nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 11:51 AM
To: AZ CA, HI, NV, UT
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] Fwd: To all D7 pattern pilots

I realize we face any issue with Masters - but that doesn't mean we need to
make the change in FAI to accommodate all those Masters pilots that may move
up to remove congestion in Masters.  I've always felt that if anyone chooses
to fly FAI then they should realize that means having to learn 2 sequences.
I see no reason to come up with 2 different classes in FAI and have one or 2
people compete in each class.  I seriously doubt we'll see a large increase
in FAI pilots coming from Masters just because of this... the FAI P sequence
this year isn't any more difficult than Masters, but that's why we have an F
sequence which is there for a reason - to separate those really good P
sequence pilots from those pilots that choose to learn the F sequence and
can demonstrate those same skills in F.

I think we would be better served by doing what Chris F. suggested... create
2 separate Masters classes.

  _____  

From: "Dale Olstinske" <dale at cadence.com>
To: "AZ CA, HI, NV, UT" <nsrca-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 10:06:07 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] Fwd:  To all D7 pattern pilots

Derek, The intention is not to force anyone to FAI, rather create an
environment whereby a Masters pilot who otherwise would not, may move to
FAI. 

That said, how would we  handle a contest with say 25 contestants, and 15 +
masters pilots? I think is could very well happen. We couldn't put everyone
on one line, that could take 2.5 hrs to complete a  round, with no judging
snafu's, probably longer.

Dale

From: nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
<mailto:%5bmailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org%5d>  On Behalf Of
Derek Koopowitz
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 8:31 AM
To: NSRCA Dist7
Subject: [NSRCA-dist7] Fwd: To all D7 pattern pilots

Jon,

I've been mulling this over since the original email from you.

Here are my thoughts - leave it as is.  The problem isn't with F3A. it's
with Masters.  I don't see why we have to modify the F3A format to fix a
problem with Masters.  That doesn't make any sense at all.

My preference is to have the same format as we did last year - if the F3A
pilot wants to fly F then let them fly F. if they don't then fly P without a
penalty.

Let's come up with a workable solution for Masters - not break up F3A to fix
Masters.  Masters is THE destination class for AMA - not F3A.  There is no
way I would force anyone up from Masters just to clear up a logjam in the
class. we can come up with other, better solutions.

Best,

-Derek

From: Jon Carter [mailto:joncarter60 at comcast.net]
<mailto:%5bmailto:joncarter60 at comcast.net%5d>  
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2012 1:48 PM
To: CA, AZ, HI, NV,UT
Cc: Adrian Wong; Bill Sneed; Bill Wallace; Dale Olstinske; Derek Koopowitz;
Dick Belden; Don Atwood; Frank Capone; Frohreich, Greg; Jarvis Johnson;
Jerry Budd; Jim Oddino; krishlan fitzsimmons; kysung at comcast.net; Luke Peng;
Lynn Burks; LuvtheRocs at aol.com; rob at koolsoft.com; Robert Gillespie; Ron
Davies; completemarine02 at sprintpcs.com; steve hannah; Terry Walker; Tom
Messer; 'Jon Carter'
Subject: To all D7 pattern pilots 

Happy New Year to all!!!

Here is an e-mail I have been working on for the last month. I am finally
sending it out to start the discussion process. If there are pilots who I
have missed, please feel free to forward this e-mail to them.

FAI and Masters in District 7: Issues and Opportunities

I want to start some discussion among FAI pilots, Masters pilots and CDs
about the FAI and Masters class in District 7. Please keep in mind that this
discussion needs to focus on our experience here in District 7. This is a
revision to a section of my K-Factor article that will appear in January.
Given publication deadlines, I did not have the opportunity to get very much
feedback before I had to submit the article! I have since received some
feedback which I have added and this e-mail is my attempt to get more.

In 2010 I heard from some of our local FAI pilots that they would like to
fly the finals or "F" sequence at local meets. They felt that getting the
opportunity to fly judged "F" sequences at our local contests would help
them improve their flying and enable them to be more competitive at the
Nats. I also heard that "FAI has two sequences so we really should fly them
both in order to "really" fly FAI" I polled and spoke to most of the FAI
pilots in our district and came up with a proposal. In 2010 we flew two
rounds of judged "F" at local contests but if a pilot did not want to fly
"F" he could fly "P" for those two rounds with no penalty. (We worked out a
K-factor modification in an attempt to score "P" and "F" together)  In 2011
we went one step further and had everyone fly two rounds of "F" at local
contests. If a pilot did not want to fly "F" he took a zero for those two
rounds. I definitely heard some feedback about that! I think the attendance
numbers speak for themselves. In 2009 ("P" only) we had the highest number
of pilots fly FAI since I have been the district scorekeeper. At some local
contests we had more FAI pilots than Masters. This number dropped in 2010
("P" and "F" sort of "fudged" together) and it fell even further in 2011
("P" & "F"). Concurrently, we have a LOT of Masters pilots! This creates
real problems for the CDs in balancing the lines, and for the judges,
usually FAI and Advanced pilots, who spend way too much time in the chair. I
have heard from many pilots this year that they do not have the time or the
inclination to fly the "F" sequence but they really enjoy the extra
challenge of the "P" sequence. This leads me to a discussion of some
proposed solution for 2012. Please keep in mind that we are just discussing
proposals at this point. 

Option 1

Don't do anything. We continue to fly FAI with 4 rounds of P and two rounds
of F. At local contests last year we flew this way and simply counted the
best 4 rounds. That way you do not have to "keep" an F score. At the
district championships you must keep an F score. 

Advantages

Keeps things the same as last year, we continue to fly the "full" FAI
pattern.

Gives our local pilots who want to fly at the Nats a chance to fly judged
"F" patterns.

Disadvantages

Many pilots don't seem to want to fly F and so they stay in Masters creating
a "bulge" that makes the CDs and the contestant judges lives more difficult.

We seem to be having a declining # of pilots in FAI.

Option 2

Go back to the way we did it in 2010 and let some people fly P and some fly
F and do some sort of score "fudge".

Advantages

Kind of a middle ground solution. Might get some pilots to leave Masters and
try FAI. 

Disadvantages

I don't really care for "fudge'ing" scoring. It just doesn't seem right in a
competitive sport.

Option 3

Split FAI into two "divisions" let's call them "Gold" and "Silver" these two
divisions are competed for and scored separately. Here's a simple
description.

FAI "Gold"

This class will fly 4 rounds of the "P" sequence and two rounds of the "F"
sequence at each local contest. Their final contest score will consist of
their best 3 out of 4 "P" rounds and their best 1 out of 2 "F" rounds. This
will also be the format used for FAI "Gold" at the district championship
contest. If there is enough interest we could even fly an unknown round at
the season championships.

FAI "Silver"

This class will fly 6 rounds of the "P" sequence at each local contest.
Their final contest score will consist of their best 4 out of 6 "P" rounds.
This will also be the format used for FAI "Silver" at the district
championship contest.

A pilot may enter either class at any contest. You cannot fly in both at one
contest though! You can change back and forth as many as you want to during
the pattern year.

Advantages:

Possibly increase the pilots flying FAI and reduce the pilots in Masters.
This will greatly simplify line balancing and judging assignments. Gold
pilots are perfect judges for Silver and vice a versa. Masters pilots can
judge Gold, Silver or Advanced. 

Reduce the length of time spent in the judging chair. Judging 10 Masters
pilots is not an easy task and requires you to be in the judging chair for
almost an hour and a half. Not very fun at a local contest!

Make the CDs job of finding and assigning judges much easier.

Might improve competition within FAI (Gold and Silver) and Masters.

Disadvantages:

The CD needs to provide one more set of trophies. Extra cost is "bad"!

Depending on who shows up the CD might have extra trophies that he will have
to "eat"

Further splits a small pool of competitors. How many pilots will fly "Gold",
maybe not enough to have a fun competition?

I think the trophy problem can be worked around. By the time we get to be a
Masters or an FAI pilot do we really need to get a trophy at a local
contest? I know I don't! A simple group photo or a medal or a simple metal
plaque that lists the event and the class would be fine. At my contests this
year I intend to simplify the Masters and FAI trophies regardless of what we
do with FAI. In regards to the other issues I don't know.

Please bear in mind that I am looking for ideas and proposals. If you are a
Masters or FAI pilot and you don't think that anything is "broke" just let
me know! If most Masters and FAI pilots think it ain't broke then we won't
"fix it"!!! (Option 1) Or if you don't like any of my proposals but have
another thought in mind just let me know. So to you FAI and Masters pilots
and Cds out there, think about it and please let me hear from you.

Jon Carter

NSRCA D7 VP

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-dist7 mailing list
NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-dist7 mailing list
NSRCA-dist7 at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist7

  _____  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 10.0.1416 / Virus Database: 2109/4121 - Release Date: 01/03/12

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-dist7/attachments/20120104/f0830b73/attachment.html>