[NSRCA-dist7] A proposal for FAI at the local level
AtwoodDon at aol.com
AtwoodDon at aol.com
Mon Mar 15 11:21:45 AKDT 2010
Bill and Steve,
After reading your posts, I think there may be some misunderstanding of the
intent of Jon's proposal. From your email wording, it sounds like you
think the FAI pilots need to decide at the contest what format they want to
use. Jon's proposal asks that if the FAI F schedule will be used during the
contest that the CDs post well in advance via the newsgroup, contest flyer,
etc. Yes, it is still the CD's choice as to the format but as a FAI pilot,
you would not show up then get surprised. If there is no prior
notification, the pilot should be assured F is not offered. It won't be voted on by
the pilots at the beginning of the contest. Any FAI pilot thinking of
attending a contest would know well in advance what sequence format will be
'offered'. The pilot can then decide if and how they want to participate.
While this isn't a perfect solution to keep everyone happy, I still believe
it the best interim solution that provides a common, predictable format
for the district. No surprises, etc. It also provides a bridge to a
possible full implementation that could be decided prior to the next contest
year. If we don't go thru this interim solution, when the topic comes up again
next year we will be right where we are today. I did have a chance to ask
Jon about this recently. He indicated he had received off line comments
from some FAI pilots (approximately five) about his proposal that had not
commented online. At that time all comments had been that they would support
the approach.
Masters - I agree, this could become a BIG problem. Last year saw a
movement of some Masters pilots to the FAI ranks which really helped at a lot
of contests. I haven't seen the contest reports on number of pilots in
Masters for this year, but, it sounds like it was a problem already. Bill,
are you proposing that 2 rounds of Masters are coupled together with the same
Masters judges for each round and the 'round' scores are tied to the judge
panels rather than the physical round? If so, that sounds workable to me,
similar approaches are used at the Nats and at International contests to
provide 'near equal' exposure to judge panels. Weather is always a crap
shoot, even within individual rounds.
Don
In a message dated 3/15/2010 6:35:07 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
shannah1806 at gmail.com writes:
Bill
I support your idea to split the class. I'd rather do two short stints vs
one monster long one. Talk about things that can drive FAI flyers away,
that long sequence and marathon judging sessions is about ready to do it to
me. I think the CD should mandate a shortened sequence any time there are
more than 5 fliers. Plus you should split the line if more than 8 show up.
As for FAI F: I don't support the pilots option or CD option. The current
proposal is effectively doing nothing beyond what we have right now.
Either we do it or we don't. If I have the choice to optionally throw away two
rounds then I'll probably opt to not do that and fly P. If I have 4 solid
rounds and my choice is to drive home early or fly F then I might fly F even
though it wouldn't have any bearing on the outcome.
Pilots already fly F on the P score sheets. I'd hope that we could
introduce an F seuence somehow but the voluntary optional thing doesn't work for
me. I can do that now but the results don't mean anything. So I'll fly P
until further notice.
Do it or don't do it.
Steve
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 15, 2010, at 10:20 AM, "Wallace, Bill" <_WallaceBill at bfusa.com_
(mailto:WallaceBill at bfusa.com) > wrote:
Tony:
My take on this is that we are not going to dictate to the CD’s hoe to run
their contest. John has suggested that if the FAI flyers want to fly the
F sequence, then the CD can run the last 2 rounds as either F or P to be
decided by the pilot. If he decides to fly the F then he will be scored at
the P schedule K factors. In my opinion, this is a fair way to run it, and
is how I am going to run the Hemet contest. If the FAI pilots don’t like
this, then they should speak up now or don’t gripe about it come contest
day. Let’s face it, we are never going to make everyone happy, but this
proposal does the best job of it – again in my never to be humble opinion.
Since Jon proposed this, and I think he will be running the Dist.
Championships, then I think we can assume that this is how they will be run. Again, if
you are a FAI pilot and you don’t like this suggestion, speak up now. Now
Jon – if I am wrong on this let me know. A more pressing problem, IMO, is
the heavily loaded Masters class we have in Dist. 7. At Yuma – half of
the registered pilots were in Masters (8). If we have a good size contest
(ie Riverside or Hemet) we could have 12 – 15 Masters pilots. This will
create havoc for the CD and the poor FAI and Advanced pilots who have to sit
in the chair for 2 – 2 ½ hours. My thoughts are to split the class if the
number gets over 10 and have the same judges for 2 rounds, but they would
only have to judge ½ the pilots each round. Then we would hold off
normalizing until the end of the 2nd round. I am thinking this would make the
judging a little more tolerable. Looking for comments and or other suggestions.
Thanks.
Bill Wallace
Fleet Sales Manager
Bridgestone Bandag Tire Solutions
4000 E. Mission Blvd.
Ontario, CA 91761
Cell Phone - 951-385-2605
Fax number - 615-493-2333
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From: _nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_
(mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org) [mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
Anthony Frackowiak
Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2010 5:17 PM
To: CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] A proposal for FAI at the local level
Hi Jon,
Somehow this slipped through on my email, so I'm just responding now.
With all due respect (whenever I say that I think of Ricky Bobby!) I don't
see why there can't be some sort of approval by the majority of the F3A
fliers. A simple yes/no and posting the results would suffice. Without that,
it looks like just one guys ideas being pressed forward.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the entire idea of this discussion
was to come to an agreement amongst all the F3A pilots on what to do in
this district? If you leave it up to the individual CD's, will the D7
Championships be decided by that CD?
Thanks!
Tony
On Mar 10, 2010, at 10:18 PM, Jon Carter wrote:
Tony – There is no real “official” process per se to vote on this
proposal. As I said, I believe that this is a first “doable” step in a process
and unless I hear some strong objections from some FAI pilots my intention is
to forward my proposal to each CD who is running a D7 contest with my
recommendation to implement it if possible for their contest. Please keep in
mind that this decision is ultimately the CD’s of the individual events.
Thanks
Jon Carter
NSRCA D7 VP
____________________________________
From: _nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_
(mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org) [_mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_
(mailto:nsrca-dist7-bounces at lists.nsrca.org) ] On Behalf Of Anthony Frackowiak
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 8:08 AM
To: CA, AZ, HI, NV, UT
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-dist7] A proposal for FAI at the local level
Hi,
I will have no problem supporting this if this what the majority of the
F3A pilots have agreed upon. Is there a process to come to a majority
agreement?
Tony
On Mar 9, 2010, at 9:14 PM, Jon Carter wrote:
Local contests and FAI: A modest Proposal.
As I have indicated on the D7 list and in e-mails to most of the D7 FAI
pilots I think that we need to come to a decision/recommendation for the FAI
class at local contests as soon as possible. At this point I have spoken
with almost every D7 pilot who flew in an FAI contest during the 2009 season.
I would like to begin by stating some facts, some assumptions and some
goals.
Facts:
* The 2010 contest season started in Phoenix on 11/14/2009 and we
are 3 contests into the season.
* Since we have already begun the season, I do not support adding “F”
as a required element at the D7 Championships for the 2010 season.
* There are strong opinions on both sides of this issue.
* Adding the “F” schedule at local contests is a significant change
to the way we have “traditionally” flown FAI.
* It is up to each individual CD to structure and run his contest in
a manner that follows the rules and satisfies the needs of his club and
his pilots.
Assumptions:
* Most D7 FAI pilots support an option to assist the pilots who go
to the Nats by providing them with a way to fly judged “F” sequences.
* Many D7 FAI pilots think that flying the “F’ sequence at local
contests would be fun, challenging and a way to more fully align ourselves
with what it means to fly “FAI”
* There will be a significant “learning” curve in judging the “F”
sequence.
Goals:
* Arrive at a set of guidelines for the 2010 season that will give
an event CD a framework for running the FAI class this year and allow pilots
who choose to, the ability to fly “F” and receive scores.
* Provide a path that will allow us to offer the “F” sequence at
local contests and the District Championships in 2011 and going forward if so
desired.
* If we make changes, ensure that a process of review is completed
to determine the positive or negative impact of the changes after the season
Proposal for the remainder of this year
Any FAI pilot who wants to may fly two rounds of F at a local contest,
with the CD’s permission. To simplify things for the CD I think that this
should be limited to the last two rounds on Sunday. If the CD is willing to
permit this, it must be mentioned as far in advance as possible. (On the
website and in the contest flyer at the minimum) If the CD does not want to fly
the “F” sequence, or no pilots want to, FAI will be flown as usual with a
best 4 out of 6 “P” sequences.
The F schedule scores will simply be entered into the computer as a P
schedule. This will apply the “P” K-Factors to the “F” sequence. This is
obviously a “handicap” for the pilots who choose to fly the “F” sequence
(~17%). It does though allow them to fly the “F” sequence in front of judges
and receive scores that they can review for areas that need improvement.
All other scoring, i.e. count the best 4 out of 6 rounds, will be kept as
is.
District Championships
The District Championship will be flown as a Schedule “P” contest only.
As I mentioned up above, we are 3 contests into the 2010 season and I do not
think that it is proper to make a change of this magnitude for the
District Championships at this time.
The Future
I believe that we should observe these changes and their impact on our
local FAI contests for the remainder of this season. If they appear to be
positive and the majority of the FAI flyers like them we could make another
step next year. If the idea has strong local FAI pilot support, I would
support making our local FAI contests a best 3 out of 4 “P” and a best 1 out of
2 “F” for 2011. Please keep in mind that by trying something different
this year we are not committing ourselves to any changes for next year. If we
adopt this proposal we have most of a year for pilots to see “F” flown
locally and for the rest of us to learn how to judge it! Remember our goal is
to compete, improve our piloting skills and have fun!
Thanks
Jon Carter
NSRCA D7 VP
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