<div dir="auto">I take it as this. The 1st is the loop you must start and end at the same point making a full 360 equal geometry. The 4 point roll is done on the 180 deg of the loop the 4 points must be equal segements of the 1/2 loop. That includes the pause while still haveing to fly the loop. Samething as a normal 4 point you pause but still have to fly the straight line.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Nov 4, 2021, 7:17 PM Stuart Chale via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal">I don’t think you can have hesitations before the rolling elements in integrated rolls. (You do but it is part of the loop) If we allow a hesitation before beginning a roll over the top 180 degrees then that hesitation could easily be
15 degrees of the loop on both sides. So the start and stop position of the roll would be almost arbitrary as long as it is after the prescribed starting point. Can’t effectively judge that.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As far as positioning of the rolls lets assume equal travel over the loop segment for all elements. 90 deg roll, knife edge, 90 deg roll, upright flight, 90 degree roll, knife edge, 90 deg roll.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">7 elements in 180 degrees. Each element covers 25.7 degrees.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The first roll travels from 90 degrees to 115.7. The knife edge is from 115.7 to 141.4.. Center of the knifedge portion is at 128.55<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The next roll is from 141.4 through 167.1. The upright flight is from 167.1 through 192.8<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Center of the upright flight is at 180 degrees<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The next roll is from 192.8 to 218.5 and the second knife edge segment is from
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">218.5 through 244.2 and the final roll from 244.2 to 270<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">(lost a tenth from rounding errors)<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Stuart<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>rom:</b> john tarpinian <<a href="mailto:jtarpinian@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">jtarpinian@yahoo.com</a>> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 4, 2021 6:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>; Stuart Chale <<a href="mailto:schale1@outlook.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">schale1@outlook.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Don Ramsey <<a href="mailto:donramsey@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">donramsey@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Masters Maneuver<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">My previous interpretation was in fact the way I was doing it. But after further analysis I was doing it wrong. I see what Stu is saying but here is another interpretation.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">1. After completing 1/4 loop hesitate briefly and roll to knife edge with knife edge portion centered at 10:30.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">2. Roll to upright with upright portion centered at 12:00.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">3. Roll to knife edge with knife edge centered at 1:30.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">4. Complete roll a little before 3:00 just as if it was another point centered on 3:00.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">This matches Stu's interpretation at the 10:30, 12:00, and 1:30 positions but differs at the 9:00 and 3:00 positions. However, the maneuver is now completely symmetric.
If you start and end the roll at the begining and end of the half loop the begining and last 1/4 rolls will be longer than the others.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">j<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a">On Thursday, November 4, 2021, 05:39:07 PM EDT, Stuart Chale <<a href="mailto:schale1@outlook.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">schale1@outlook.com</a>> wrote:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a">I have always judged integrated rolls with the start and completion of the roll within the designated arc. A half roll over the top 90 starts and completes
the half roll at the 45 degree points. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a">The four point would be the same the roll starts at 90. 180 should be the mid point of the upright or inverted section and the plane should complete the last
90 degree roll at 270 degrees. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a">Stuart<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a">Sent from my iPhone<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a">On Nov 4, 2021, at 4:36 PM, john tarpinian via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:#26282a"></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a">
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">I would say it's not symmetrical in that after the first 1/4 loop there is a hesitation but just before reaching the 3:00 position you are rolling. My interpretation
assuming entering the loop from the right.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">1. After completing first 1/4 loop, hesitate and perform 1/4 roll coming to knife edge at 10:30<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">2. Hesitate and then perform 1/4 roll to coming to upright at 12:00.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">3. Hesitate and come to knife edge at 1:30.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">4. Hesitate and complete roll at 3:00. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">The NSRCA description makes it sound like you should begin the roll at 9:00. See below.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black"> Loop with integrated 4 point roll over the top 180 degrees. (U): From upright pull a ¼ inside loop, continue the loop while rolling 90 degrees, hesitate the
roll while continuing the loop, roll 90° in the same direction while continuing loop, hesitate the roll while continuing loop, the center of this hesitation should be at top dead center of the loop, roll 90° in the same direction while continuing the loop,
hesitate the roll while continuing the loop, roll 90° in the same direction while continuing the loop, completing the roll at 270° of the loop, pull ¼ inside loop to exit in level horizontal flight.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a">On Thursday, November 4, 2021, 03:52:13 PM EDT, Don Ramsey via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote: <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="m_-6160327444841247216yiv4274796410msonormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="color:#1f497d">Food for thought. In the new Masters sequence, think about the loop with a 4 point roll. Where do the rolls start and where are the key points for KE, Up-right, KE, and
finish. Is the up-right portion of the roll symmetrical around center?</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_-6160327444841247216yiv4274796410msonormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_-6160327444841247216yiv4274796410msonormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282a"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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