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<p>It would still be a 0 and if it wasn't flopped but poorly
executed but you thought it was 25% out of the box then drop
whatever you were going to give by 2.5 points.</p>
<p>Now to be totally honest very few people judge the top of the box
unless it is way out of the box and you have to look almost
straight up. Almost no one in Masters for the last 2 years flew
the top of the vertical Cuban within the box unlesss they were
also too far out.</p>
<p>Stuart C.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/5/2020 7:17 PM, Tjpritchett via
NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:D9F68840-B629-4A58-AA59-FED8993D802E@aol.com">
What’s odd about this model is that it applies equal value to each
segment’s portion of the maneuver. Some segments are undisputedly
harder than others.
<div> For instance, say it’s a stall turn and not a square. The
pilot flies the majority of the maneuver perfectly, but flops
the stall. However, the flop and correction were out of the top
of the box. The flop would earn him a zero if it was in the box,
but since it was out, it would only be 1/3 or ~3.5 points of a
downgrade. <br>
<br>
<div id="AppleMailSignature">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div><br>
On Jul 5, 2020, at 6:24 PM, flyintexanmark via
NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Why should the top of the box violation be treated
differently than the sides of the box violations?
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">That simply goes by percentage of the
overall size of the manuever... correct?</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:100%;color:#000000" dir="auto"><!-- originalMessage -->
<div>-------- Original message --------</div>
<div>From: Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
</div>
<div>Date: 7/5/20 5:13 PM (GMT-06:00) </div>
<div>To: Don Ramsey <<a href="mailto:donramsey@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">donramsey@gmail.com</a>>,
General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judging question </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="auto">I agree with Cliff. I don’t think the
current rule book consider to count elements out of the
box. In any event, there is no time to do it and it is
not practical. </div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Vicente “Vince” Bortone </div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at
4:52 PM Don Ramsey via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-7454391857077586917WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">So,
how many points do you downgrade?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-7454391857077586917WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
NSRCA-discussion [mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Vicente Bortone via
NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, July 5, 2020 4:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Keith Black; General pattern
discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Judging question</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">I
will do a proportion of the square out of
the box. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">Vicente
"Vince" Bortone</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">On
Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 4:01 PM Keith Black via
NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">Nice
question. Sounds like 3/8 this of the
maneuver is not acceptable, that leaves
you with about a 6. Unless you decide to
zero on the grounds that the entire
maneuver must be in the box. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">Keith</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;line-height:115%">On
Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 3:26 PM Don Ramsey
via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">During
a judging discussion
recently, a question came up
that I would like to get
input from the group.
Setup: A centered square
loop (as if there could be a
turnaround version) is flown
with the upper radii and
horizontal line flown out of
the box. The other elements
are perfect. What is your
downgrade for the box
violation?</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
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-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Vicente "Vince" Bortone</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
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