<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Adding a pitot tube with feedback loop into the throttle channel would violate the rule. <div class=""> <br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jun 9, 2020, at 9:38 AM, tim pritchett via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" class="">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><div style="font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;" class=""><div id="yiv3464872408" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Hey Dave,<div class=""><br clear="none" class=""><div class=""> I couldn't really tell whether you are saying it violates the reg. or not. My guess would be 'not', but you kind of make the case both ways. The D3 is a power management system that does make power adjustments based on model performance. It senses the 'load' on the motor, and increases power, if I understand it correctly. Since the motor is not part of the ESC, it's part of the model, and its performance is being read. You also said 'the D3 doesn't know why the change is needed.....' but actually it does. It knows that the motor RPM (part of the model performance) has changed, and corrects with a power adjustment. The difference seems to be whether or not you consider motor RPM to be part of the model's performance.</div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class=""> I can see the similarity with servo's, but they are not in question here. The argument should be made as to why ESC's are singled out, but nevertheless, they are. Throttle tech acts differently, I think. It caps the power output to preserve battery life, if I remember correctly. All I remember about using one was that I didn't have enough power! </div><div class=""><br clear="none" class=""></div><div class=""> If this regulation does not apply to this capability, I wonder what it's written for? About all an ESC, or power management system, does is vary the power. And the reg. says it can't do it automatically. If the Contest Board ultimately decides these are ok to use, I can't figure out what else would constitute a violation - the rule should be struck as superfluous. I actually hope that's the case, which is the point of this discussion ;)<br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""> <br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><div class="yiv3464872408yqt9761791262" id="yiv3464872408yqt77550"><div style="font-family: arial, helvetica; font-size: 10pt;" class="">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none" class="">To: <a href="mailto:tjpritchett@aol.com" class="">tjpritchett@aol.com</a>; 'General pattern discussion' <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" class="">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:ejhaury@comcast.net" class="">ejhaury@comcast.net</a>; <a href="mailto:chadnortheast@gmail.com" class="">chadnortheast@gmail.com</a><br clear="none" class="">Sent: Mon, Jun 8, 2020 9:58 pm<br clear="none" class="">Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] Plettenberg Advance 30-10 ESC - Questions<br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><div id="yiv3464872408" class=""><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408WordSection1"><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;">In order for the ESC to make power adjustments with regards to model performance, position, or attitude, the ESC must be aware of the model performance, position, or attitude. Just as the servo has an internal feedback loop, so do ESCs – even those without the governing function of the D3. Traditional ESCs and the D3 do their work without knowing the model performance, position, or attitude.</div><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"> </div><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;">The D3 could decrease or increase power to the motor to prevent RPM from increasing for a variety of reasons – the plane is diving or climbing, the lipos are getting warmer (more efficient) or colder (less efficient), prop “bite” is changing due to changing airspeed, etc. The D3 doesn’t know why the change is needed, and it does not know the specific result of changes made (other than RPM is being maintained). When Throttle Tech was being developed, I talked with quite a few people about the legality of the concept (including Ramel), and it was deemed to be legal – primarily on the basis that Throttle Tech received zero information about the speed, attitude, position, performance, etc of the plane.</div><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"> </div><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;">I flew the D3 quite a bit on a V4 Contra Drive, and detailed my final setup at RCU – post 1928 on this thread<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/electric-pattern-aircraft-385/9833118-contra-rotating-propeller-drive-f3a-2m-pattern-planes-78.html" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/electric-pattern-aircraft-385/9833118-contra-rotating-propeller-drive-f3a-2m-pattern-planes-78.html</a> It is a very good ESC. Specific to the V4 vs Castle w/ Throttle Tech, the absolute downline braking is not improved, but the behavior is different. The Castle is capable of slowing the prop RPM too much in a downline (buffeting sound occurs, and this is possible with other ESCs as well), and the D3 can slow the props too much in a downline as well, and the D3 takes a variable amount of time (short) to “catchup” and govern properly again. It took me quite a few flights to get the D3 properly tuned for the V4 – tuning for a direct drive single prop is much easier.</div><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"> </div><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;">One additional consideration with the D3 – SAFETY!!! The throttle curves that work best inflight generally have a very high idle – high enough that landings are difficult or impossible. So the use of 2 or more throttle curves is needed, and if the “flight” throttle curve is inadvertently selected on the ground, a V4 contra is going to be “idling” fast enough to take off. Others have posted that inflight RPM of single prop setups is ~2000 RPM -which is considerably higher than the traditional ~500 RPM of traditional ESCs.</div><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"> </div><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;">Regards,</div><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"> </div><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;">Dave</div><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"> </div><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div class="yiv3464872408yqt4463109587" id="yiv3464872408yqtfd58630"><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" class="">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>tim pritchett via NSRCA-discussion<br clear="none" class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, June 8, 2020 11:23 AM<br clear="none" class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ejhaury@comcast.net" class="">ejhaury@comcast.net</a>; <a href="mailto:chadnortheast@gmail.com" class="">chadnortheast@gmail.com</a>; <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" class="">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br clear="none" class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Plettenberg Advance 30-10 ESC - Questions</div></div></div><div class="yiv3464872408yqt4463109587" id="yiv3464872408yqtfd24620"><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"> </div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">Earl,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> Good analogy with servo loops. I suppose if the regulation were written about control surfaces, we'd all by flying control line. </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">The rule as written however seems to explicitly restrict ESC's from self-regulating power output. With this device, when the plane changes attitude, the ESC adjusts power. Self regulating speed controllers had to be the targeted restriction; what else is there in an ESC?</span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">FYI - I asked the AMA about it and have two different perspectives so far. Some of those folks may be on this list as well, but I'll share their feedback when it's determined.</span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> <br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""></span></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none" class="">From: EARL HAURY <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ejhaury@comcast.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:ejhaury@comcast.net" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">ejhaury@comcast.net</a>><br clear="none" class="">To: Chad Northeast <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:chadnortheast@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chadnortheast@gmail.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">chadnortheast@gmail.com</a>>; General pattern discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>; Tjpritchett <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:tjpritchett@aol.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:tjpritchett@aol.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">tjpritchett@aol.com</a>><br clear="none" class="">Sent: Mon, Jun 8, 2020 9:50 am<br clear="none" class="">Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Plettenberg Advance 30-10 ESC - Questions</span></div><div id="yiv3464872408" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class="">I suppose an Electronic Speed Controller might be expected to actually control motor speed, however most don't. They simply control the amount of power applied to the motor. Great to see some ESC's that now actually control motor speed! F3A rules don't address power management systems, while the AMA rule would appear to address aircraft performance rather than motor speed control. Possibly the latter needs some wordsmithing. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class="">Certainly the new ESC systems involve an on board feedback loop. However, with the exception of retract servos, all of our servos use an internal feedback loop to ensure that they move and hold where we command. So we've been flying with feedback loops in our airplanes since the exit of escapements and ESC's are just catching up.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class="">As has been pointed out, as long as the pilot must select the control input (be it surface position or motor rpm) these systems are well within the rules. Systems that automatically maintain aircraft attitude (gyros) or speed (pitot data to ESC for example) aren't. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class="">Earl<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">On June 7, 2020 at 2:08 PM Chad Northeast via NSRCA-discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class="">So many of us (myself included) flew these at the WC in 2019, and there were many events in Europe that allowed their use. As well the Hacker Sensitrol (similar function, however it uses direct rpm measurement I believe) was also in use at the WC in 2019, so there is some good precedent for legal use at least internationally. They were known to the event organizers/jury/judges etc. that they were being used, and no one was disqualified or asked to remove them that I am aware of. Personally I did bring along a full batch of other esc’s in case this happened as there was definitely “chatter” about them being illegal, however it turned out that was not an issue. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">My understanding is it would become illegal if you say used it to maintain airspeed, which would then in turn auto adjust the throttle input from the rx, essentially taking the pilot out of the “control loop”. What I understand in simple terms is that as long as the pilot is part of the control loop then its most likely legal.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">Maybe Mark or Derek, or someone more in the loop on the inner workings of the rules with the FAI can give more info.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">It would be a great shame to make these sorts of innovations illegal as ultimately it will stifle creativity and has zero bearing on the results. Everyone has access to them, so its a level playing field, the best pilot will rise to the top as usual.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">Chad<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">Sent from my iPad<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""><br clear="none" class=""><br clear="none" class=""></span></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">On Jun 7, 2020, at 12:34 PM, Tjpritchett <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:tjpritchett@aol.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:tjpritchett@aol.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">tjpritchett@aol.com</a>> wrote:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></blockquote></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">As I was reading this thread, I was wondering how a self regulating speed control might fit within the current competition regulations. We’ve considered the gyro/ stabilization debate before, and that issue is pretty clear, since the relevant rule was written after gyro control was already available. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">This capability, prop rpm, was not really around until now, and may need to be evaluated more carefully against existing rules. The most relevant I could find is copied and posted below, from the 2020-2021 AMA Competition Regulations, 4.4.2. Point number 3 seems particularly relevant. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">What do you think?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">Examples of control functions not allowed:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">1. Preprogramming that will automatically perform a series of commands based on a timeline.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">2. Automatic leveling or electronic stabilization in any axis.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">3. Power plant management systems that adjust power with regards to model performance, position or attitude.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">4. Positioning systems utilizing any sensors such as air data, GPS, distance, etc.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">5. Learning functions involving maneuver-to-maneuver or flight-to-flight analysis.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""><br clear="none" class="">Sent from my iPhone<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""><br clear="none" class="">On Jun 7, 2020, at 1:11 PM, flyintexanmark via NSRCA-discussion <<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">A slight tweak in kv and a d3 should allow use of a ys200 prop. The right throttle curve and it may be possible to get Bryan Hebert to fly electric :)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">Seriously it seems more possible now than ever to emulate a YS.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">-------- Original message --------<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">From: Chad Northeast via NSRCA-discussion <<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">Date: 6/7/20 9:27 AM (GMT-06:00)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Plettenberg Advance 30-10 ESC - Questions<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div></div><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">I will chime in my 2 cents on the Pletty. I have used the Jeti Spin 99 and the Futaba 9100 (same as OS 1100) and the D3, all of them without issues so I think you are safe with those for sure. I have not used the CC or the Jeti Mezon, but I imagine the Mezon is like the Spin. There is no issue taking a Pletty Advance to 90A, and no issues for big props, in fact the bigger the better. I use a 22-13, which hits around 85A and 6300 RPM on the ground, any prop made you can run on the motor depending on what you like.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">Braking has always been an issue, even with the Jeti/Futaba ESC braking set I have never been able to get it “perfect” where its good in downlines and in 45’s etc, there always seemed to be a compromise. Propellor selection had some impact, I found APC’s brake better than a Falcon on their own so that helped to get the balance better at least for my style.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">This is where the D3 shines (braking/constant speed), I think blows the doors off every other controller made. It is a total re-learn of how you fly, but once you get it I don't think you would want to go back. For those that don't know, the D3 is produced just for pattern and is custom to every motor, so you order for the motor you want. There is no programming, no telemetry, nothing really, you just put it in the model setup your tx and fly. It is a governor controller so setting up your RPM is absolutely critical, if you get it wrong you will not have great results and likely struggle with it. However the ability to get constant speed is very good, it really turned the Pletty into a setup that has braking as good as anything else IMO. It manages power for you in a lot of cases, for instance as you pull vertical and the models starts to slow down and load the prop the esc will apply power to maintain rpm, so you don't need to throttle up much, maybe 2 clicks on the stick.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">Some of the adjustments you need to get used to, generally you want to start throttling up prior to pulling the exit radius, as the esc is always maintaining rpm of the motor you dont have that freewheel to help carry speed out of an exit. So if you don't throttle up early you will really lose airspeed. Mostly in looping elements you actually never need to really come to a full idle, as the esc is essentially braking all the time to maintain the rpm based on your stick position.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">I have also found it very efficient consumption wise, as good or better than the Futaba/Jeti’s that I have used prior. Some really nice side benefits, it is light ~70g and inexpensive.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">Below is a chart of rx output and motor rpm for the Pletty, personally I use 950 rpm for landing, 1950 rpm for normal flight (downline idle), and 5600 rpm at my midstick position. In case it doesn’t show up properly, one column is % of output, one column is us output of rx (0 - 2000 us) and last is motor rpm.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div class=""><table class="yiv3464872408MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="276" style="width: 207pt; border-collapse: collapse;"><tbody class=""><tr style="min-height: 13pt;" class=""><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" width="92" style="width: 69pt; padding: 0in; min-height: 13pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">100.00%</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" width="92" style="width: 69pt; padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">2000</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" width="92" style="width: 69pt; padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">6700</div></td></tr><tr style="min-height: 13pt;" class=""><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 13pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">90.00%</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">1800</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">6030</div></td></tr><tr style="min-height: 13pt;" class=""><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 13pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">80.00%</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">1600</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">5360</div></td></tr><tr style="min-height: 13pt;" class=""><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 13pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">70.00%</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">1400</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">4690</div></td></tr><tr style="min-height: 13pt;" class=""><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 13pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">60.00%</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">1200</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">4020</div></td></tr><tr style="min-height: 13pt;" class=""><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 13pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">50.00%</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">1000</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">3350</div></td></tr><tr style="min-height: 13pt;" class=""><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 13pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">40.00%</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">800</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">2680</div></td></tr><tr style="min-height: 13pt;" class=""><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 13pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">30.00%</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">600</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">2010</div></td></tr><tr style="min-height: 13pt;" class=""><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 13pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">20.00%</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">400</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">1340</div></td></tr><tr style="min-height: 13pt;" class=""><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 13pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">10.00%</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">200</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">670</div></td></tr><tr style="min-height: 13pt;" class=""><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 13pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">0.00%</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">0</div></td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding: 0in; min-height: 12.75pt;" class=""><div align="right" class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif; text-align: right;">0</div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class="yiv3464872408MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: sans-serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="">NSRCA-discussion mailing list<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class=""><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;" class="">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class=""><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" style="color: blue; 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