<div dir="ltr">+1 to that Mark!<br><div><br></div><div>While the US did not provide the SW. I can say that the FAI DOES have an extensive test suite to validate any scoring software proposed for use in an FAI event (not just the WC, but also national and continental events). I'm sure it was run on this software (most likely the system that works with the Notaumatic scribe). But, as many CD's in the US can attest, it's possible to get the configuration of the contest wrong; and so much of that has to do with human factors and UI design. Master Scoring, likely, would have avoided THIS problem simply because we don't ask the user how many pilots to count in the normalization, it figures it out from the list of pilots. You simply tell the system how many advance to the semi-finals and finals. That said, I've fielded enough calls from CDs on weekends where things weren't working as expected and most of the time it's some little thing they didn't configure right in MasterScoring. No experience is perfect, especially for stuff we use a few times a year...</div><div><br></div><div>Peter+</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 7:49 AM Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">
Just to clarify,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The scoring program used was provided by the organizers, i.e. Italians, (not the US). There is a process for certification prior to use, and this was completed. I believe the issue at hand was NOT a software glitch, but a simple user error.
As someone here pointed out earlier, there are many configuration options in these programs and in this case, it provided results that were not intuitively incorrect. Short version is that the normalization “base” should have been 15 pilots, and instead
it used 5. Which, by the way, is the difference between a semi final setup, and a finals set up. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regardless, the FAI subcommittee is already in discussion about procedures to prevent this from occurring in the future. One issue that complicated matters was the use of a single flight line for the Semi-Finals. This resulted in a flying day
that lasted from 8am - 8:40pm with NO lunch break. Too long. As a result, it was a scramble to finalize scores, certify, have a TM meeting to verify and go through unknowns, and then finally distribute unknowns at 11PM. WHICH also breaks the rules of not
providing unknowns 12hrs in advance of flying. Thankfully there were no protests for that.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>These are complicated events, with a lot of moving parts. Something that we’re about to learn first hand as we host the 2021 worlds. It’s a hobby. Everyone is a volunteer. Everyone is passionate about model aviation. Everyone is doing their
utmost best to provide the best possible event and outcomes, just like we will do for 2021 (GO MONTE!!!!). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There were many pilots whose standings were negatively (and a few positively) affected by the error in normalization. There is little to be done to effectively “fix” that for everyone that was impacted. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I’ve formally asked for, and have received 3 things from the FAI Jury. Admission and acknowledgement that the error occurred. A formal apology to those affected, including Joseph. And immediate discussions to establish new procedures that
will help eliminate this from happening in the future.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do not expect an invitation to be offered. It’s simply more complicated. Other countries have pilots that were impacted, though maybe not as critically as Joe. Regardless, adding additional entrants will likely invite other protests. As
it is, the US will likely have as many as 5 on our team given that we still have the reigning Jr. World Champion. Adding to the confusion will be the addition of female pilots on any team that has or wishes to bring one (Similar to the addition of Jr. Pilots
a few years ago). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I’m not trying to defend the mistake that was made, but simply trying to explain it, and emphasize that it was indeed, a mistake. They happen in all facets of life. I’m an advocate that acknowledging them, apologizing for them, and making every
effort to prevent them from happening again is what separates good organizations from bad. I believe that is happening here. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Mark</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<div>On Aug 21, 2019, at 10:13 AM, Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div>
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,0);width:100%;border-left-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-width:5pt;padding:3pt;font-size:10pt;line-height:12pt;font-family:Calibri;text-align:left">
<span style="font-weight:bold">CAUTION:</span> Message originated from outside of Paragon. Use caution regarding any links, attachments, credential and financial requests.
</div>
<br>
<div>
<p style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">
John, and anyone else who might have thought I was looking to affix blame by asking what software was used, I most certainly was
<strong>not</strong>. I was just curious about what was used. I gather from the (lack of direct) responses that we (USA) provided the software to the FAI. If that was the case, I would think
<strong>the FAI would provide financial support</strong> for the thorough de-bugging process that is needed to avoid the kind of SNAFU that happened at this year's worlds. Like John, my only credentials for speaking out are three: a "regular" CD,
a Leader Member, and a guy who, like all the rest of you reading this list, really cares about our competitors, especially Joseph, because I know Don and have followed Joseph's remarkable career. I have given Kudos to Derek in years past for the scoring program
he developed, and also to Gene for his work.</p>
<p style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)">
That said, it seems we have a ground-swell of sentiment in NSRCA for trying to get FAI to issue a standing invitation to Joseph for 2021. That would not take anything away from the Frenchman who made it into this year's finals, and would go a little way toward
admitting publicly that a mistake was made and an attempt to rectify it is offered. I, again, urge our NSRCA leadership to "bug" the FAI for Joseph's invitation. I seriously doubt he will need it, but the gesture...</p>
<div class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261io-ox-signature">
<p style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261default-style">
<span class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261signature-truncate"><span class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261signature-truncate"><span class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261signature-truncate"><span class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261signature-truncate"><span class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261signature-truncate"><span style="font-family:"Arial Black";font-size:12px"><strong><em>SPA
L-18, Board Member, NSRCA 2032, KCRC Emeritus<br>
Knoxville, TN 37931 (865) 604-0541c</em></strong></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">On August 20, 2019 at 11:32 PM John Ferrell via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:
<br>
<br>
<p>It looks so easy to find a single soul to hold responsible for whatever went wrong. I don't want to up set anyone because we need all the talents we can muster to support our cause.</p>
<p>There are precious little paid to help our volunteers with expenses. The budget to support the entire Nats has been under fire since the beginning of time. I hope that it is still as much fun for you folks as it was for me. My credentials for even
speaking are limited to a Leader Member and an ordinary CD. <br>
</p>
<p>It was an especially wicked "FUBAR". I knew Joseph since he was a bump on his mothers belly and he will not let this incident dampen his resolve!</p>
<p>We all share the burden of the glitch . Thanks for letting an old fart vent.
<br>
</p>
<div class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-moz-cite-prefix">On 8/20/2019 9:15 PM, Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion wrote:
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>
+ a whole bunch!! Someone from the USA management should not just suggest that, but argue very strongly for it.</p>
<p>
whose software was it? The FAIs? I was a software developer at several points in my career, and one just does not run an event or demo or anything with a package that has not been
<strong>thoroughly verified and tested</strong>. In my opinion, time crunch is not an excise, it is a demonstration of faulty planning.</p>
<div class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-io-ox-signature">
<p style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-default-style">
<span class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-signature-truncate"><span class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-signature-truncate"><span class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-signature-truncate"><span class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-signature-truncate"><span class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-signature-truncate"><span style="font-family:"Arial Black";font-size:12px"><strong><em>Phil
Spelt, AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member<br>
SPA L-18, Board Member, NSRCA 2032, KCRC Emeritus<br>
Knoxville, TN 37931 (865) 604-0541c</em></strong></span></span></span></span></span></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">On August 20, 2019 at 8:29 PM Matthew Finley via NSRCA-discussion
<a class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a> wrote: <br>
<br>
<div dir="auto" style="direction:ltr;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt">
Yes ! An automatic invite I think is the least they could do for their mistake......
<br>
<br>
</div>
<div dir="auto" style="direction:ltr;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt">
<div dir="auto" style="direction:ltr;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11pt">
Get <a href="https://aka.ms/ghei36" target="_blank">Outlook for Android</a></div>
<br>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-ox-7dc9b66c7b-divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><strong>From:</strong> NSRCA-discussion
<a class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">
<nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org></a> on behalf of Monte Richard via NSRCA-discussion
<a class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a><br>
<strong>Sent:</strong> Tuesday, August 20, 2019 8:21:50 PM<br>
<strong>To:</strong> Atwood, Mark <a class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:atwoodm@paragon-inc.com" target="_blank">
<atwoodm@paragon-inc.com></a>; General pattern discussion <a class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></a><br>
<strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Apology</span>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>That really sucks. They should at least give him an invitation to compete in 2021 whether he makes the team or not.
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div id="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-ox-7dc9b66c7b-AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
On Aug 20, 2019, at 7:12 PM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion < <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote: <br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Yes, I apologize if that was not clear. The incorrect normalization put him in 11th and Brett and 12th, where they should have finished 10th and 11th respectively.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Koji Suzuki would have moved to 12th</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
On Aug 20, 2019, at 7:38 PM, Stuart Chale < <a href="mailto:schale1@outlook.com" target="_blank">
schale1@outlook.com</a>> wrote: <br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,0);width:100%;border-left-style:solid;border-color:rgb(0,0,0);border-width:5pt;padding:3pt;font-size:10pt;line-height:12pt;font-family:Calibri;text-align:left">
<span style="font-weight:bold">CAUTION:</span> Message originated from outside of Paragon. Use caution regarding any links, attachments, credential and financial requests.</div>
<br>
<div>I guess that means he should have been in the finals? <br>
<br>
<div id="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-ox-7dc9b66c7b-AppleMailSignature" dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
On Aug 20, 2019, at 7:26 PM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion < <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote: <br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr"> <br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I think it’s important that everyone sees this. I will also post it on our team page. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I’m still working on getting a revised final ranking from the organizers. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">-Mark <br>
<br>
<br>
Begin forwarded message: <br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><strong>From:</strong> Peter Uhlig < <a href="mailto:peteruhligf3a@aol.com" target="_blank">
peteruhligf3a@aol.com</a>> <br>
<strong>Date:</strong> August 20, 2019 at 6:19:03 PM EDT <br>
<strong>To:</strong> <a href="mailto:jszczur2000@gmail.com" target="_blank">jszczur2000@gmail.com</a>,
<a href="mailto:dszczur@verizon.net" target="_blank">dszczur@verizon.net</a>, "Skinner, Bob" <
<a href="mailto:samaa-gm@mweb.co.za" target="_blank">samaa-gm@mweb.co.za</a>> <br>
<br>
<strong>Subject:</strong> <strong>Apology</strong> <br>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<p> <br>
</p>
<p><strong><em><u><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:Calibri;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Formal apology to Mr Joseph Szczur</span></u></em></strong></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:rgb(51,51,255)">Dear Joseph Szczur,</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:rgb(51,51,255)">On behalf of the FAI Jury, and the organizer of the 2019 F3A World Championship, I must profusely apologize for the mistake in the semi-final ranking list.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:rgb(51,51,255)">The score keeper and the Jury worked under trying conditions during the long days. All results were spot-checked on all the days by the Jury and the contest director as best we could, also
making spot checks of the semi-final results, on Friday evening. We allowed at least an hour before proceeding with the team manager’s meeting. At this time we had no reason to suspect anything untoward in the results of the semi-finals, especially since all
the calculations were performed electronically, and we applied some measure of trust in the system. The results were published according to the rules, and neither the contest management, nor the Jury received any enquiries.</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-ox-7dc9b66c7b-listparagraph" style="margin-bottom:6pt">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:rgb(51,51,255)">At the beginning of the last final round (Unknown 2), the developer of the scoring software application, mentioned to the jury that there may be a possible problem with the semi-final results. By that
time the developer was not quite sure about the extent of the problem, and if this potential error could have had an effect on the ranking. The jury unanimously decided not to stop the event, as long as the problem was not absolutely correctly identified and
verified. At that point, time was of course very limited, and the priority of the organiser was to finish the event.
</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-ox-7dc9b66c7b-listparagraph" style="margin-bottom:6pt">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:rgb(51,51,255)">At the conclusion of the flights, and after verifying the results of the finals to be able to officially publish them, the jury and the developer took a closer look at the potential problem. By the time
the problem was correctly and fully identified, the flight line was no longer in operation, there were no judges left on the field, and all the required infrastructure, wi-fi, electricity, etc had been dismantled.
<br>
<br>
I have known you for the last six years as a fair, keen, and great sportsman, and can fully understand your frustration, disappointment, and possible anger that this error had to occur to you. The scorekeeper, contest director, and jury members did not realise
the extent of the error until much later. We did not spot the mistake during checking of the semi-final results.</span></p>
<p class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-ox-7dc9b66c7b-listparagraph" style="margin-bottom:6pt">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:rgb(51,51,255)">This unfortunate turn of events has left you the victim in the process, and we can only apologise for this injustice, and we all hope that you will accept our sincere apology.<br>
<br>
Sincerely<br>
Peter Uhlig<br>
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(51,51,255)">FAI Jury President at 2019 FAI F3A World Championship for Aerobatic Model Aircraft</span></p>
<div> <br class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div> <br class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________ <br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">_______________________________________________ <br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
(c) 2019 Compass Engineering & Consultants, LLC. All rights reserved. This electronic transmission, and any attachments hereto, is intended only for the use of each individual recipient named above and may contain information belonging to the sender that is
confidential, proprietary, is subject to copyright, constitutes a trade secret or is legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or the taking of any action in reliance on the
contents of this information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately (i) notify the sender, (ii) permanently delete the original and all copies of this electronic transmission and all attachments hereto,
and (iii) destroy all printouts of this electronic transmission and all attachments hereto. Please note that electronic transmissions to and from the sender may be monitored by the sender's employer. Thank you for your cooperation. </div>
</blockquote>
<p style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-default-style">
<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________ <br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
<a class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<br>
<a class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></blockquote>
<p style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-default-style">
<br>
</p>
<br>
<pre class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
<a class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<a class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261ox-ae82af0e4c-moz-signature">--
John Ferrell W8CCW
Julian NC 27283
It is better to walk alone,
than with a crowd going the wrong direction.
--Diane Grant</pre>
</blockquote>
<p style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261default-style">
<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________ <br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></blockquote>
<p style="font-size:12pt;font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class="gmail-m_4801696323787953261default-style">
<br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training</div><div>Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark</div><div>Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X</div><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg" width="200" height="154"><img src="https://googledrive.com/host/0B4LOPeyGAgOJUVJmU1dJMVl6WWc/AcademyModelAeronauticsLogo.png" width="200" height="136"><br></div></div></div></div></div>