<div dir="ltr">Given that you have one in your brain and the seat of your pants, not to mention simple things like a strip of yarn on the windshield to tell you whether your turn is coordinated, altimeters, etc. I'd have to say, the equivalent of a gyro is allowed :-)<div><br></div><div>Peter+<br><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 4:15 PM Vicente Bortone <<a href="mailto:vincebrc@gmail.com">vincebrc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="auto">Hello all,</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I got a question. Are gyros allowed in real aerobatics competition?</div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Vicente “Vince” Bortone </div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 4:29 PM Wayne Galigan via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">All this talk about gyros is making me hungry. </div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 3:46 PM Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">On the face of it, I agree with Jon. That said, I think the same concerns existed in F3C about 5-7 years back, but they started allowing Flybarless system electronics (which are effectively 3D gyros) and their world didn't implode. From my perspective having flown some Gyro-enabled aircraft (obviously not in competition) the gyro actually buys you VERY little. It makes the lines smoother, but the geometric challenges, centering, throttle control, etc. all apply and are NOT solved by the gyro. In fact, some things become significantly harder with a gyro (i.e a stall turn) as the gyro is actively fighting the intended behavior of the plane. This was also the conclusion, IIRC, of the committee that reviewed whether to allow FBL in F3C.<div><br></div><div>Peter+</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 1:01 PM Jon Lowe via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">This defeats the whole point of the sportsman pattern: to fly straight lines, establish angles, and to put the plane where you want it, not where it wants to go. Most sport fliers can't fly a straight line if their life depends on it. New pattern flyers are amazed when I make them practice straight and level flight over and over before I left them try manuevers. After awhile, they see the point.</p>
<p dir="ltr">We have a guy in our club who flies gyros all the time. When they are on, he can fly beautiful lines, slow rolls, point rolls, etc. Turn them off, and he's all over the sky. Sportsman would be won by someone who could set up their gyros the best, not by someone who had the most control of their airplane. So basically, intermediate would become the entry point for pattern. So we'd have to dumb that down so that people could learn to fly their planes.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Jon</p>
<div class="gmail-m_4252489297454697915m_102573381070528399m_-8964136895724788825gmail-m_-2513046144860498196device_aol_et_org_dt_dd_quote"></div><hr style="border:0px;height:1px;color:rgb(153,153,153);background-color:rgb(153,153,153);width:100%;margin:0px 0px 9px;padding:0px"><span style="font-size:14px;color:rgb(153,153,153)">On Friday, January 18, 2019 tim pritchett via NSRCA-discussion <<span style="color:rgb(0,0,160)"><a href="mailto:tjpritchett@aol.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">tjpritchett@aol.com</a>; <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a></span>> wrote:</span><br><div id="gmail-m_4252489297454697915m_102573381070528399m_-8964136895724788825gmail-m_-2513046144860498196yiv7065416740"><font color="black" size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
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<div>On the additional subject of gyros/stabilization use in pattern, we posted a Poll on the D2 facebook page asking:</div>
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<div><span style="color:rgb(29,33,41);font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b>So, what would you think about a rules change proposal that allowed gyros in Sportsman and Intermediate, for any plane below 1.8M (70.9") span, and length?</b></span><br>
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<div>The results thus far are: </div>
<div>16 for,</div>
<div>25 against</div>
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<div>My comment would be that Intermediate is too competitive for this, and we should/could restrict gyros to Sportsman only in a proposal. Club is not an AMA class, so we can already do anything we want there. </div>
<div>Any other comments? </div>
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<div>You can also join, vote, and comment, or review comments on the page if you prefer: </div>
<div><a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/NSRCADistrict2/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/groups/NSRCADistrict2/</a></div>
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</font></div>_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a>_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Director, Fixed Wing Flight Training</div><div>Santa Clara County Model Aircraft Skypark</div><div>Associate Vice President, Academy of Model Aeronautics District X</div><div>Treasurer, National Society of Radio Control Aerobatics (NSRCA)</div><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6513778381_5569cc985d_m.jpg" width="200" height="154"><img src="https://googledrive.com/host/0B4LOPeyGAgOJUVJmU1dJMVl6WWc/AcademyModelAeronauticsLogo.png" width="200" height="136"><br></div></div></div></div>