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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Tim,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>My jaw is still on the ground, terrible
news to hear. Wish I had something for you, but I don't have anything you
would be interested in.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Curt O.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> NSRCA-discussion
[mailto:<st1:PersonName w:st="on">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</st1:PersonName>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>tim pritchett via
NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, January 05, 2019
7:48 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> jpavlick@idseng.com;
nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Price for a pattern plane...</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>....And now I'll have to test the subject
line....I just dusted my brand new Epic Evo today, due to undetermined radio
failure. And, just having sold my back up Nuance last weekend!
Talk about bad timing...Everything was working out per plan to be ready
for the NATS, but there's not enough time in my schedule to get a new one
ready. So I'll be testing the aftermarket! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Sorry to hijack....<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">John Pavlick</st1:PersonName> via
NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
To: '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>'
<nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
Sent: Sat, Jan 5, 2019 12:45 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern plane...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=yiv2596328815>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>That’s what many people do which is why
changing the rules to give a smaller plane an “advantage” in 401 and 402 is not
only unnecessary but probably more detrimental than you might think.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Assuming someone knows that Pattern
exists in the first place, the first question they ask is “What kind of plane
do I need”. My answer is ALWAYS <i><span style='font-style:italic'>the one that
you’re most comfortable with</span></i>. Sometimes that’s a 90-size plane like
a Venus (or the modern equivalent), sometimes it’s a 60-size scale aerobatic
airplane. It’s almost NEVER a 2-meter Pattern plane. So there really is no
problem as far as hardware is concerned. They don’t need to buy anything to
give Pattern a try. They just need to know where the contest is.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Many clubs have Pattern pilots in them.
In this case, people who may be interested in flying Pattern will seek out the
help of the Pattern guys in the club. In fact, I bet that 99.9% of the NSRCA
members look for potential Pattern pilots in their club and offer to help them
get started. Many of these people end up at a contest. In my club, I taught
someone how to fly and I noticed that he had skills. I told him to get a Venus
60 (this was a long time ago) and start practicing the 401 schedule. I helped
him practice and this also got other people interested: “What are you guys
doing? Can I try?”. My Student became a 401 District Champion the second year
that he was flying. With a Venus 60.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>The point is: there is nothing wrong with
the 401 schedule or the airplane/equipment requirements. Sportsman is a bit
challenging at first but not overwhelming. If it is then that person won’t
survive 402 or 403 anyway. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>So what made the Sunday “sport” flyers in
my club take up Pattern?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<ol start=1 type=1>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>They were told that it existed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>They had help getting started.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:black;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>They didn’t need to buy
anything special.<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ol>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>The first item was my doing. Not NSRCA’s.
Think of how many more people would get involved if we didn’t rely on JUST the
club Pattern guys to do our recruiting…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><font size=2 color=black
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>John
Pavlick</span></font></st1:PersonName><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Cell: 203-417-4971<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><img width=90 height=39
id="yiv2596328815Picture_x005f_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.jpg@01D4A536.43797F80"
alt=idslogo2><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Integrated Development Services<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div id=yiv2596328815yqt56832>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'> NSRCA-discussion <<st1:PersonName w:st="on">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</st1:PersonName>>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b><st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Scott</st1:PersonName> via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, January 4, 2019
10:12 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Dr. Mike Harrison
<drmikedds@sbcglobal.net>; Robert L. Beaubien <rob@koolsoft.com>; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName> <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Price for a pattern plane...<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I started Pattern with a smaller
airplane, a Venus II, moved up to a second hand Focus II, Then went ekectric
with a Xigris. I understood all along that Sportsman was a try-out and that I’d
struggle when I moved up. I was accepted and nurtured through it all and
others can come up the same way if we help them understand that’s how it works.<br>
<br>
Sent from XFINITY Connect <st1:place w:st="on">Mobile</st1:place> App<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------ Original Message ------<br>
<br>
From: Robert L. Beaubien via NSRCA-discussion<br>
To: Dr. Mike Harrison, '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>'<br>
Sent: January 4, 2019 at 9:52 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern plane...<br>
<br>
Me coming back is only 1/2 the issue. The other is I got started in pattern due
to the generosity of an existing upper level pattern pilot selling me their
older 2m plane (Typhoon, thanx Rusty! 😊 ) for dirt cheap. If you block 2M
planes from competing in lower classes, then that is a roadblock in my opinion.
- Robert Beaubien - Sr Software Architect - Kool Software LLC “What do you call
a firm of lawyers buried up to their necks in concrete? A failure
to estimate the proper amount of concrete.” -----Original Message----- From:
Dr. Mike Harrison Sent: Friday, January 4, 2019 7:31 AM To: Robert L. Beaubien
; '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>'
Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern plane... Thanks Robert, The
point of the rules changes is that there are already substantial roadblocks to
newcomers and that is explained in the proposal. your claim is that it causes
roadblocks for those coming back. Instead of buying a used 2 meter plane you
could buy a new smaller plane, so it's not a money issue. As others have stated
and know, the smaller planes fly very well. Not a compelling argument. Mike
-----Original Message----- From: NSRCA-discussion [<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
shape=rect ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Robert L. Beaubien via NSRCA-discussion Sent: Thursday, January 3,
2019 4:27 PM To: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern plane... I do not like the
proposed rule. I'm looking to get back to competitive flying this year and will
likely use my 2m Focus II. This rule would also prevent using "hand me
downs" from pilots in upper classes. I think adding any road blocks to
participation would not be good. I have no problem with a sliding bonus scale
based on model size and have no issues letting Sportsman and even Intermediate
pilots use whatever plane they want. - Robert Beaubien - Drone Plastics “What
do you call a firm of lawyers buried up to their necks in concrete? A failure
to estimate the proper amount of concrete.” -----Original Message----- From: NSRCA-discussion
On Behalf Of Dr. Mike Harrison via NSRCA-discussion Sent: Thursday, January 3,
2019 11:42 AM To: 'Curt Oberg' ; '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern
discussion</st1:PersonName>' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Price for a
pattern plane... Read the proposal. there is a grandfather clause to address
the current flyers. Another point is that practically no one owns just 1 plane,
it would be ok to buy a smaller pattern plane. -----Original Message----- From:
NSRCA-discussion [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank" shape=rect
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Curt Oberg via NSRCA-discussion Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019
11:08 AM To: '<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Bob Kane</st1:PersonName>' ; '<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>' Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern plane... Don't you just hate it when
someone says out loud the thoughts that are in your head that you're afraid to
throw out on the table. I fear that Mr. Kane may be right in the long run,
sadly. I'm afraid that this rule change may actually have a negative impact in
that it may chase out those already flying 2M planes in Intermediate who are
not ready, and may never be ready to jump to Advanced. Curt Oberg -----Original
Message----- From: NSRCA-discussion [<a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
shape=rect ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Bob Kane</st1:PersonName> via
NSRCA-discussion Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 10:02 AM To: '<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>' Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern plane... Call me a naysayer, but I don't
think there is a dam thing we can do to stop the decline. We might slow it a
bit, but it is terminal IMHO. It is impacting every facet of the hobby. Brick
and mortar hobby shops are all but gone, those that are still surviving are not
doing so on airplane sales. Companies are going under, trade shows are dying,
clubs are folding due to aging membership, NATS participation is in decline,
etc. There is not enough new blood getting into the sport. All this at a time
when it has never been easier or cheaper to put a competitive airplane in the
air. The signs are all there, I am just saying out loud. Add to that the
pending doom of an FAA rule to limit the altitude to 400'? I am going to enjoy
it while I can. Back to the cave. <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Bob Kane</st1:PersonName>
<a href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com" target="_blank" shape=rect
ymailto="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com">getterflash@yahoo.com</a>
-------------------------------------------- On Thu, 1/3/19, Dr. Mike Harrison
via NSRCA-discussion wrote: Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern
plane... To: "'<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Jas S</st1:PersonName>'" ,
"'<st1:PersonName w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName>'"
Date: Thursday, January 3, 2019, 8:55 AM #yiv2223723423 #yiv2223723423 --
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#yiv2223723423 I have read the discussions here with considerable interest. The
decline in pattern has been steady and substantial. There are a number of
indicators for this. I have submitted a rule proposal to encourage
participation in this event. I would strongly encourage you all to contact your
contest board member to pass this rule change proposal. you can type AMA rules
change proposals and read for yourselves. I recommend you do that and read ALL
of it before ripping it up. I have talked to a number of newcomers or those
that would compete if it weren’t so expensive,etc and have based the proposal
on that. everything I have read here supports the spirit and intent of the proposal.
It would be a very healthy rules change for the event. Mike From:
NSRCA-discussion [<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank" shape=rect
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Jas S</st1:PersonName> via
NSRCA-discussion Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018 9:12 PM To: <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern plane... Bill- Have at it. If it helps
promote pattern, let’s do it.Curt- lucky man, even with those tree landings 😉Hank-
my first pattern contest was in 1981, with a Top Flite Headmaster with a Fox
.40, and I was dead last by a looooong way. None of it to do with my plane,
just my lack of ability. My following 2 ‘pattern planes’ were an MK Spinks
Acromaster and a Godfrey 1/4 scale Laser 200 (in the red Bud Light scheme too).
Did I win with those, nope, but again, cause of lack of skills, not the plane.
It wasn’t until I really started to focus on my flying and practice did I see
better results. True that this also came along the same time I got a pattern
plane, but even that design was a ‘73 design, a year before I was born lol. My
brother flew an Ugly Stick in the 1988 Nats and always out scored me on
take-offs and landings cause he did that better than I did. My first TOC in
1994, I flew what was considered a small plane at 103” and a 70cc twin. I ended
up 6th without the plane bonus and did the warm-ups in the finals. At that
point my skill was taking over and I was out flying my planes.I flew with a
5UAP Futaba radio with no expo or mixes for years before getting my first
computer radio, and funny enough only used 5 channels for a few years after
getting it too lol. No expo, no mixes... just atv/end-points and trims. Here
locally we’ve had many non-pattern planes competing over the years. Extra .40,
foam Splendor, foam Explorer, Super Cessna, Intruder, small Vanquish and
Acuity, Era 50, Curare, Kaos, Leader, Stick .40, 50cc Yak..... and many more I
can’t think of at the moment. A lot of these have won or placed in the top 3 in
their class and the pilots seemed to have fun when it was all said and done.
I’m not saying this is always the case, but as we know, it’s up to all of us,
bottom to top, to keep things fair and fun. Two things I had trouble with
coming up the ranks was accepting any low scores I got in a flight and not
being afraid to give scores using the 0-10 scale. I’ve probably been called
names after pilots see the scores from me and compare them to another judge.
I’m not a perfect judge, but I do think I am a fair and consistent judge. I
will give Andrew Jesky a 1 if he flies what I think is a 1 in front of me
(haven’t seen it yet), or a 10 to RVP (have done it before and will miss the
opportunity to do again). Anyone is capable of flying any end of the spectrum
during a flight at any time. If a pilot is honest with themselves and can see
the mistakes (the hardest part), then there is no frustration in the scores
given, just in the mistakes made. That’s where being on your own can hurt. I
was on my own in practice until I moved to FL and was able to fly with Joe and
Ryan during practice. As it turns out, it was also a bad thing cause when we
judged each other, we knew the mistakes that most likely would/could be made.
Generally we found that we scored each other harder than others just cause of
that knowledge. I think that also made us better pilots, especially in those
rounds lol. Sorry for the rambling. Happy New Year and now it’s time for me to
go glue my battery tray together for my Epic. Strapping it to my landing gear
former for the first 3 flights was ok for testing, but it’s time to practice on
Thursday with our newest Jr member Kal. JasonJas iP On Dec 31, 2018, at 8:52
PM, Henry Pajari via NSRCA-discussion wrote:Hi Yep, I agree. Back in the late
70's I flew "A" pattern with an Ugly Stick and a steel case Super
Tigre 60. Even took 3rd once, I could take off and land really well - the rest,
well I brought the airplane home in less than 3 pieces. I have been lurking on
this list and have been a member for several years, hoping for the time when I
could get into pattern. Over the years I have seen all too many of those I call
Elitists belittling others who don't have, want, or cannot afford the equipment
that the FAI flyers have. I thank all of you who took the time to respond. My
comment is really that if we are to build pattern as a mainstream interest
again we need a way to get the average flyer, that has any interest in
competition, to start. Once they have participated in a few contests and met
the other guys I believe it could take off. In my area there are no pattern
flyers in my club - Mather Aerospace Modelers. I believe there are a few in the
SAM's club and there are none I am aware of in AMOS (I am a member) or El
Dorado Hills (I am a member). This covers well over a thousand flyers. But
thanks again for the good conversation. A lot more interesting than flying down
wind😒 HankFrom: NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018 2:53 PM To: John Ford; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">General
pattern discussion</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Price for
a pattern plane... Thank you for the really, REALLY good comments, John. The
same has been my experience over the past 30 years of pattern flying. I have
seen almost no "elitists" in pattern. In fact, I can not think of
even one, right now, thinking back... Phil Spelt, AMA 1294, Scientific Leader
Member SPA L-18, Board Member, KCRC Emeritus Oliver Springs, TN (865) 435-1476v
(865) 604-0541cOn December 31, 2018 at 5:10 PM John Ford via NSRCA-discussion
wrote: Hank, You make some good points, but I have to jump in on this one. In
the past 10 years, I've flown "competitively" at over 40 fields in 12
states and 4 countries. In the previous 20 years to that, maybe half as many
venues. Over that 30-year period, contrary to being laughed off the field, I've
observed many people show up with everything from a 40-sized sport plane to a
3D gasser, and some showing some significant wear and tear, requiring some
Saturday morning surgery (with donated time and materials) from more
experienced flyers to allow the new person to put in their rounds. I've even
seem one senior competitor, unable to fix the newcomer's plane, offer one of
his spare planes for the newcomer to fly. Yes, we have all seen one or two
crassly snobby individuals who looked down their noses...not only at lesser
planes, but at the entire Sportsman and Intermediate classes...but I've never
personally come across a generally-present "Elitist" group that
dampens the enjoyment of the sport for others, regardless of experience level
or plane choice. In fact, the folks who tend to be financially-fortunate and
who show up with the latest and greatest planes tend to be the most generous
with their time and help for newcomers, or for anyone else. There are always a
few exceptions, but it not the general rule...that I have personally seen.
There is always someone on email lists such as this one (and others) that will
play armchair expert and start describing what plane is required for this class
and that class. It's not good information, to be polite about it It's ALWAYS
been about the pilot and how much effort is devoted to practice...it's NEVER
been about the plane. If you examine the NSRCA contest results and look for
those same armchair experts, you'll usually find that they haven't flown a
contest in decades. Again, exceptions exist, but anyone can win any class with
a battle-worn 10-year old plane regardless of glow or electric, or with a
smaller plane. I've seen it done in front of me several times. So has everyone
else who goes to contests. As long as your plane can climb to the top of the
box, it's good enough..just practice! You are in the hunt! JohnNSRCA 1673 On
Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 3:25 PM Henry Pajari via NSRCA-discussion < <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" shape=rect
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote: Hi Guys Thanks for addressing this issue. If we are truly down to 400
members, and want to stick around, I believe bringing in new blood is pivotal.
I'm at work so I can't write all I want but I would like to dial expectations
down a little more. I wanted to get started in pattern a few years back. I
bought an ARF pattern plane for a 72 4 stroke (about 48 inch WS). I also bought
a Swallow? for a 120 to 140. Life got in the way so I never finished them. I
gave the smaller one to my son and he did some work then got a job in <st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">San Diego</st1:place></st1:City> so the airplane
sits in my shop. If I am lucky I will convert both to electric and get started.
(I've been flying models since 1958 and RC since 1970 but mainly just for sport
and socializing). Today you can get a good electric motor, ESC, and batteries
for way cheap so getting these air-frames in the air is very feasible for
anyone that thinks they may be interested in pattern. Why can't a flyer get one
of these ARF's to get their feet wet and enter a couple of contests? If they
like it they will invariably move up to what the Elitists call competitive
equipment. My concern is that if someone showed up at a contest with one of
these airplanes they would be laughed off the field. When I started playing
golf 25 years ago or so I had a used set of clubs. I played terribly, like when
I learned to fly pre-buddy box. When I got better I built my own clubs via
Golfsmith. Now I have a nice set of <st1:place w:st="on">Pings</st1:place>.
Still play badly but look good getting out of the car 😉 Do any of you think I
am on a useful track? Hank From: NSRCA-discussion on behalf of Tjpritchett via
NSRCA-discussion Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018 12:04 PM To: Curt Oberg; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">General pattern discussion</st1:PersonName> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Price for a pattern plane.. Good perspective, an even better goal, and an
excellent wife!! You’ve got it made Curt!! (See you in <st1:place w:st="on">Andersonville</st1:place>!)
Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 31, 2018, at 2:13 PM, Curt Oberg via
NSRCA-discussion < <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org"
target="_blank" shape=rect ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote: > > When I started flying pattern back in the mid 70's, starting
from scratch you could get into pattern flying with a very competitive rig for
about $750. One hundred for a plane kit, $100 for a piped .61 Rossi, $400 for a
ProLine Competition 6 radio including battery and servos, and about $150 for
retracts, wheels, fuel tank, retract servos, finishing materials, etc. Of
course you then had to build the plane first (which is probably becoming a lost
art). Relatively speaking, considering inflation and the differential between
salaries then and now, the cost of a present day, ARF pattern plane, set up
ready to fly is probably very close in a percentage of your disposable income.
It helps immensely when you have a wife like mine who encourages me buy the
best equipment out there for my planes. Every time I hesitate to spend money on
the hobby, she always tells me that if I don't spend the money, my son will when
I'm gone. My cost for enjoying pattern flying would go down somewhat if I would
quit landing in the top of the trees. > > Curt Oberg > >
-----Original Message----- > From: NSRCA-discussion [ <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank"
shape=rect ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
On Behalf Of <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Jas S</st1:PersonName> via
NSRCA-discussion > Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018 7:15 PM > To: <a
href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" shape=rect
ymailto="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern plane... > > There’s
always been talk about how expensive pattern is. All disciplines and hobbies
are expensive, it’s just a choice one makes as to how much they want to spend.
I’ve not had a ‘top of the line $$$$’ model since I was a teen when I wasn’t
paying for my planes. Back then I was lucky enough to get the best planes on
the market. Ten Plus planes back then were as good as the Yang/Oxai planes of
today, and relative cost was about the same. Since being on my own, I’ve had
more average planes, price point at least. Sponsorship allows me to outfit my
planes with what I consider some of the best equipment, but even then I don’t
bling out my planes at every turn. > > Example, Acuity set-up from the 2017
Nats in Blytheville, AR: > Plane: AJ Acuity $949 > Motor: AJ 5230-20P
$260 > OS/Futaba ESC: $300 I think > Battery: ThunderPower 6000’s $220
> Servos: Futaba SBUS, 173’s, 171’s & 175 $950 now 🤭 > Receiver:
Futaba 7006 $100 now > Falcon Spinner and Prop: $160 > Total works out to
about: $2939 > > Most hardware is stock from the kit. Linkages, tail
wheel assembly, sticky velcro hook side, axles, wheels. I changed the cowl
screws, motor mounting screws (shorter) and velcro strap for the battery. > >
I could have used, and not hurt my performance any, this equipment: > Futaba
9650’s, 9151’s & 9155 ($430) and saved -$520 > Futaba 617 receiver ($94)
and saved -$6 > Castle 80a ESC ($145) and saved -$155 > Gator spinner
($18) and saved -$42 > APC prop ($44) and saved -$56 > Power Unlimited
5800’s ($186) and saved $34 > Shulman Aviation 6v regulator ($20) +$20 >
Total saved: $658 > > So my Acuity set-up could be done for just about
$2144. This is assuming you have NONE of the stuff to put in a 2m sized plane.
> > Now my Epic set-up from the 2018 Muncie, IN Nats is a different price
point: > CA Model Epic $2780 (Evo price, I think Epic + was less) >
Brenner Contra: $1000 last year > Kontronic Motor: $500 > Add $100 for a
2nd Falcon prop > Subtract $60 for the Falcon spinner > Futaba
servos/receiver, ThunderPower batteries and OS/Futaba ESC are the same prices
as Acuity. > > I usually use 2mm carbon rod for pushrods, Du-Bro/Central
Hobbies/F3AU links, MPI 2.25 wheels. > > Total around $6000 > >
Again, using equipment that’s not ‘top of the line’, I can save about $2400.
Most of the difference from the Acuity savings is swapping the contra for a
Himax set-up. > > And the Yang/Oxai you can add another $~2500 to the
total for a top-shelf set-up. > > All this being said, the BEST deals for
a newbie to pattern are: > Any sport/pattern capable plane they are
comfortable flying. > Any second hand pattern plane they can afford. > A
good friend with a spare plane they will loan you 😁 > > Have a safe
Happy New Year to everyone and always land wheels down 😉 > > Jason >
Jas iP > _______________________________________________ >
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