<div dir="auto">Vicente.... have you not watched quad racing on a closed circuit... those guys flip, roll, tumble to get threw the obstacle course. </div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Jan 3, 2019, 12:27 PM Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="auto">I wonder now if possible to do precision aerobatics with drones. </div></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:19 PM Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I should add that my comments were not specifically directed toward Mike Harrison's proposal . . . . . some changes may have a boost in some areas. But in medical terms I think it is about improving the quality of the life we have left, not extending it.<br>
<br>
The increase in SPA activities is encouraging, but who is doing it? Is it all younger newcomers? <br>
<br>
Bob Kane <a href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">getterflash@yahoo.com</a><br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
On Thu, 1/3/19, Curt Oberg <<a href="mailto:obergc@cox.net" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">obergc@cox.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: RE: [NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern plane...<br>
To: "'Bob Kane'" <<a href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">getterflash@yahoo.com</a>>, "'General pattern discussion'" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Date: Thursday, January 3, 2019, 12:07 PM<br>
<br>
Don't you just hate it when someone says out<br>
loud the thoughts that are in your head that you're afraid<br>
to throw out on the table. I fear that Mr. Kane may be<br>
right in the long run, sadly. I'm afraid that this<br>
rule change may actually have a negative impact in that it<br>
may chase out those already flying 2M planes in Intermediate<br>
who are not ready, and may never be ready to jump to<br>
Advanced. <br>
Curt Oberg<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: NSRCA-discussion [mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Bob Kane via NSRCA-discussion<br>
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 10:02<br>
AM<br>
To: 'General pattern discussion'<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Price<br>
for a pattern plane...<br>
<br>
Call me a naysayer, but I don't think<br>
there is a dam thing we can do to stop the decline. We<br>
might slow it a bit, but it is terminal IMHO. It is<br>
impacting every facet of the hobby. Brick and mortar<br>
hobby shops are all but gone, those that are still surviving<br>
are not doing so on airplane sales. Companies are going<br>
under, trade shows are dying, clubs are folding due to aging<br>
membership, NATS participation is in decline, etc. <br>
There is not enough new blood getting into the sport. <br>
All this at a time when it has never been easier or cheaper<br>
to put a competitive airplane in the air. The signs are all<br>
there, I am just saying out loud. Add to that the pending<br>
doom of an FAA rule to limit the altitude to 400'? <br>
<br>
I am going to enjoy it while I can.<br>
Back to the cave.<br>
<br>
Bob Kane <a href="mailto:getterflash@yahoo.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">getterflash@yahoo.com</a><br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
On Thu, 1/3/19, Dr. Mike Harrison via<br>
NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Price<br>
for a pattern plane...<br>
To: "'Jas S'" <<a href="mailto:justanotherflyr@gmail.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">justanotherflyr@gmail.com</a>>,<br>
"'General pattern discussion'" <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Date: Thursday, January 3, 2019, 8:55<br>
AM<br>
<br>
#yiv2223723423<br>
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#yiv2223723423 I have read the<br>
discussions here<br>
with considerable interest. The<br>
decline in pattern has<br>
been steady and substantial. <br>
There are a number of<br>
indicators for this. I have<br>
submitted a rule proposal to<br>
encourage participation in this<br>
event. I would strongly<br>
encourage you all to contact your<br>
contest board member to<br>
pass this rule change proposal. <br>
you can type AMA rules<br>
change proposals and read for<br>
yourselves. I recommend you<br>
do that and read ALL of it before<br>
ripping it up. I have<br>
talked to a number of newcomers or<br>
those that would compete<br>
if it weren’t so expensive,etc and<br>
have based the proposal<br>
on that. everything I have read<br>
here supports the spirit<br>
and intent of the proposal. It<br>
would be a very healthy<br>
rules change for the event. <br>
Mike From: NSRCA-discussion<br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<br>
On<br>
Behalf Of Jas S via NSRCA-discussion<br>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018 9:12<br>
PM<br>
To: General pattern discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Price<br>
for a pattern plane... Bill-<br>
Have at it. If it helps<br>
promote pattern, let’s do it.Curt-<br>
lucky man, even with<br>
those tree landings 😉Hank- my first<br>
pattern<br>
contest was in 1981, with a Top Flite<br>
Headmaster with a Fox<br>
.40, and I was dead last by a looooong<br>
way. None of it to do<br>
with my plane, just my lack of<br>
ability. My following 2<br>
‘pattern planes’ were an MK Spinks<br>
Acromaster and a<br>
Godfrey 1/4 scale Laser 200 (in the<br>
red Bud Light scheme<br>
too). Did I win with those, nope, but<br>
again, cause of lack<br>
of skills, not the plane. It wasn’t<br>
until I really started<br>
to focus on my flying and practice did<br>
I see better results.<br>
True that this also came along the<br>
same time I got a pattern<br>
plane, but even that design was a<br>
‘73 design, a year<br>
before I was born lol. My brother flew<br>
an Ugly Stick in the<br>
1988 Nats and always out scored me on<br>
take-offs and landings<br>
cause he did that better than I did.<br>
My first TOC in 1994, I flew<br>
what was considered a small plane at<br>
103” and a 70cc twin.<br>
I ended up 6th without the plane bonus<br>
and did the warm-ups<br>
in the finals. At that point my skill<br>
was taking over and I<br>
was out flying my planes.I flew with a<br>
5UAP Futaba<br>
radio with no expo or mixes for years<br>
before getting my<br>
first computer radio, and funny enough<br>
only used 5 channels<br>
for a few years after getting it too<br>
lol. No expo, no<br>
mixes... just atv/end-points and<br>
trims. Here locally we’ve had many<br>
non-pattern planes competing over the<br>
years. Extra .40, foam<br>
Splendor, foam Explorer, Super Cessna,<br>
Intruder, small<br>
Vanquish and Acuity, Era 50, Curare,<br>
Kaos, Leader, Stick<br>
.40, 50cc Yak..... and many more I<br>
can’t think of at the<br>
moment. A lot of these have won or<br>
placed in the top 3 in<br>
their class and the pilots seemed to<br>
have fun when it was<br>
all said and done. I’m not saying<br>
this is always the case,<br>
but as we know, it’s up to all of<br>
us, bottom to top, to<br>
keep things fair and fun. Two<br>
things I had trouble with<br>
coming up the ranks was accepting any<br>
low scores I got in a<br>
flight and not being afraid to give<br>
scores using the 0-10<br>
scale. I’ve probably been called<br>
names after pilots see<br>
the scores from me and compare them to<br>
another judge. I’m<br>
not a perfect judge, but I do think I<br>
am a fair and<br>
consistent judge. I will give Andrew<br>
Jesky a 1 if he flies<br>
what I think is a 1 in front of me<br>
(haven’t seen it yet),<br>
or a 10 to RVP (have done it before<br>
and will miss the<br>
opportunity to do again). Anyone is<br>
capable of flying any<br>
end of the spectrum during a flight at<br>
any time. If a pilot<br>
is honest with themselves and can see<br>
the mistakes (the<br>
hardest part), then there is no<br>
frustration in the scores<br>
given, just in the mistakes made.<br>
That’s where being on<br>
your own can hurt. I was on my own in<br>
practice until I moved<br>
to FL and was able to fly with Joe and<br>
Ryan during practice.<br>
As it turns out, it was also a bad<br>
thing cause when we<br>
judged each other, we knew the<br>
mistakes that most likely<br>
would/could be made. Generally we<br>
found that we scored each<br>
other harder than others just cause of<br>
that knowledge. I<br>
think that also made us better pilots,<br>
especially in those<br>
rounds lol.<br>
Sorry for<br>
the rambling. Happy New Year and now<br>
it’s time for me to<br>
go glue my battery tray together for<br>
my Epic. Strapping it<br>
to my landing gear former for the<br>
first 3 flights was ok for<br>
testing, but it’s time to practice<br>
on Thursday with our<br>
newest Jr member Kal.<br>
JasonJas iP<br>
On Dec 31,<br>
2018, at 8:52 PM, Henry Pajari via<br>
NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
wrote:Hi<br>
Yep, I<br>
agree. Back in the late 70's I<br>
flew "A"<br>
pattern with an Ugly Stick and a steel<br>
case Super Tigre<br>
60. Even took 3rd once, I could<br>
take off and land really<br>
well - the rest, well I brought the<br>
airplane home in less<br>
than 3 pieces.<br>
I have been<br>
lurking on this list and have been a<br>
member for several<br>
years, hoping for the time when I<br>
could get into pattern. <br>
Over the years I have seen all too<br>
many of those I call<br>
Elitists belittling others who don't<br>
have, want, or<br>
cannot afford the equipment that the<br>
FAI flyers<br>
have. <br>
I thank all of<br>
you who took the time to<br>
respond. My comment is really<br>
that if we are to build pattern as a<br>
mainstream interest<br>
again we need a way to get the average<br>
flyer, that has any<br>
interest in competition, to<br>
start. Once they have<br>
participated in a few contests and met<br>
the other guys I<br>
believe it could take off. In my<br>
area there are no pattern<br>
flyers in my club - Mather Aerospace<br>
Modelers. I believe<br>
there are a few in the SAM's club and<br>
there are none I<br>
am aware of in AMOS (I am a member) or<br>
El Dorado Hills (I am<br>
a member). This covers well over<br>
a thousand<br>
flyers.<br>
But<br>
thanks again for the good<br>
conversation. A lot more<br>
interesting than flying down wind😒<br>
HankFrom: NSRCA-discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
on behalf of Phil Spelt via<br>
NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2018 2:53<br>
PM<br>
To: John Ford; General pattern<br>
discussion<br>
Subject: Re:<br>
[NSRCA-discussion] Price for a pattern<br>
plane...<br>
Thank you for the really, REALLY<br>
good comments, John. <br>
The same has been my experience over<br>
the past 30 years of<br>
pattern flying.<br>
I have seen almost no<br>
"elitists" in pattern. In fact,<br>
I can not think<br>
of even one, right now, thinking<br>
back... Phil Spelt, AMA 1294, Scientific<br>
Leader Member<br>
SPA L-18, Board Member, KCRC<br>
Emeritus<br>
Oliver Springs, TN (865) 435-1476v<br>
(865)<br>
604-0541cOn December 31, 2018 at 5:10<br>
PM John Ford via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
wrote: Hank, <br>
You make some<br>
good points, but I have to jump in on<br>
this<br>
one. In<br>
the past 10 years, I've flown<br>
"competitively"<br>
at over 40 fields in 12 states and 4<br>
countries. In the<br>
previous 20 years to that, maybe half<br>
as many<br>
venues. Over that 30-year period,<br>
contrary to being laughed off the<br>
field, I've observed<br>
many people show up with everything<br>
from a 40-sized sport<br>
plane to a 3D gasser, and some showing<br>
some significant wear<br>
and tear, requiring some Saturday<br>
morning surgery (with<br>
donated time and materials) from more<br>
experienced flyers to<br>
allow the new person to put in their<br>
rounds. I've even<br>
seem one senior competitor, unable to<br>
fix the newcomer's<br>
plane, offer one of his spare planes<br>
for the newcomer to<br>
fly. <br>
Yes, we<br>
have all seen one or two crassly<br>
snobby individuals who<br>
looked down their noses...not only at<br>
lesser planes, but at<br>
the entire Sportsman and Intermediate<br>
classes...but I've<br>
never personally come across a<br>
generally-present<br>
"Elitist" group that dampens the<br>
enjoyment of the<br>
sport for others, regardless of<br>
experience level or plane<br>
choice. In fact, the folks who tend to<br>
be<br>
financially-fortunate and who show up<br>
with the latest and<br>
greatest planes tend to be the most<br>
generous with their time<br>
and help for newcomers, or for anyone<br>
else. There are always<br>
a few exceptions, but it not the<br>
general rule...that I have<br>
personally seen. There is<br>
always someone on<br>
email lists such as this one (and<br>
others) that will play<br>
armchair expert and start describing<br>
what plane is required<br>
for this class and that class. It's<br>
not good<br>
information, to be polite about it<br>
It's ALWAYS been<br>
about the pilot and how much effort is<br>
devoted to<br>
practice...it's NEVER been about the<br>
plane. If you<br>
examine the NSRCA contest results and<br>
look for those same<br>
armchair experts, you'll usually find<br>
that they<br>
haven't flown a contest in decades.<br>
Again, exceptions<br>
exist, but anyone can win any class<br>
with a battle-worn<br>
10-year old plane regardless of glow<br>
or electric, or with a<br>
smaller plane. I've seen it done in<br>
front of me several<br>
times. So has everyone else who goes<br>
to<br>
contests. <br>
As long<br>
as your plane can climb to the top of<br>
the box, it's good<br>
enough..just practice! You are in the<br>
hunt! JohnNSRCA 1673 <br>
On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 3:25<br>
PM Henry Pajari via NSRCA-discussion<br>
< <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
wrote: Hi<br>
Guys<br>
Thanks for<br>
addressing this issue. If we are<br>
truly down to 400<br>
members, and want to stick around, I<br>
believe bringing in new<br>
blood is pivotal.<br>
I'm at<br>
work so I can't write all I want but I<br>
would like to<br>
dial expectations down a little<br>
more.<br>
I wanted to<br>
get started in pattern a few years<br>
back. I bought an ARF<br>
pattern plane for a 72 4 stroke (about<br>
48 inch WS). I also<br>
bought a Swallow? for a 120 to<br>
140. Life got in the way so<br>
I never finished them. I gave<br>
the smaller one to my son<br>
and he did some work then got a job in<br>
San Diego so the<br>
airplane sits in my shop.<br>
If I am lucky<br>
I will convert both to electric and<br>
get started. (I've<br>
been flying models since 1958 and RC<br>
since 1970 but mainly<br>
just for sport and socializing). <br>
<br>
Today you can<br>
get a good electric motor, ESC, and<br>
batteries for way cheap<br>
so getting these air-frames in the air<br>
is very feasible for<br>
anyone that thinks they may be<br>
interested in<br>
pattern.<br>
Why can't<br>
a flyer get one of these ARF's to get<br>
their feet wet and<br>
enter a couple of contests? If<br>
they like it they will<br>
invariably move up to what the<br>
Elitists call competitive<br>
equipment. My concern is that if<br>
someone showed up at a<br>
contest with one of these airplanes<br>
they would be laughed<br>
off the field.<br>
When I started<br>
playing golf 25 years ago or so I had<br>
a used set of clubs. <br>
I played terribly, like when I learned<br>
to fly pre-buddy<br>
box. When I got better I built<br>
my own clubs via<br>
Golfsmith. Now I have a nice set<br>
of Pings. Still play<br>
badly but look good getting out of the<br>
car 😉<br>
Do any of you<br>
think I am on a useful track?<br>
Hank From: NSRCA-discussion<br>
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
on behalf of Tjpritchett via<br>
NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
Sent:<br>
Monday, December 31, 2018 12:04 PM<br>
To: Curt<br>
Oberg; General pattern discussion<br>
Subject:<br>
Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Price for a<br>
pattern plane..<br>
Good perspective, an even<br>
better goal, and an excellent<br>
wife!! You’ve got it made<br>
Curt!! <br>
(See you in Andersonville!) <br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone <br>
<br>
> On Dec 31, 2018, at 2:13<br>
PM, Curt Oberg via NSRCA-discussion<br>
< <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
wrote: <br>
> <br>
> When I<br>
started flying pattern back in the mid<br>
70's, starting<br>
from scratch you could get into<br>
pattern flying with a very<br>
competitive rig for about $750. One<br>
hundred for a plane kit,<br>
$100 for a piped .61 Rossi, $400 for a<br>
ProLine Competition 6<br>
radio including battery and servos,<br>
and about $150 for<br>
retracts, wheels, fuel tank, retract<br>
servos, finishing<br>
materials, etc. Of course you<br>
then had to build the plane<br>
first (which is probably becoming a<br>
lost art). Relatively<br>
speaking, considering inflation and<br>
the differential between<br>
salaries then and now, the cost of a<br>
present day, ARF<br>
pattern plane, set up ready to fly is<br>
probably very close in<br>
a percentage of your disposable<br>
income. It helps immensely<br>
when you have a wife like mine who<br>
encourages me buy the<br>
best equipment out there for my<br>
planes. Every time I<br>
hesitate to spend money on the hobby,<br>
she always tells me<br>
that if I don't spend the money, my<br>
son will when<br>
I'm gone. My cost for enjoying<br>
pattern flying would go<br>
down somewhat if I would quit landing<br>
in the top of the<br>
trees. <br>
> <br>
> Curt<br>
Oberg <br>
> <br>
><br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
> From:<br>
NSRCA-discussion [ mailto:<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of Jas S via<br>
NSRCA-discussion <br>
> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2018<br>
7:15 PM<br>
<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>
<br>
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Price<br>
for<br>
a pattern plane... <br>
> <br>
> There’s always been talk about<br>
how<br>
expensive pattern is. All disciplines<br>
and hobbies are<br>
expensive, it’s just a choice one<br>
makes as to how much<br>
they want to spend. I’ve not had a<br>
‘top of the line<br>
$$$$’ model since I was a teen when<br>
I wasn’t paying for<br>
my planes. Back then I was lucky<br>
enough to get the best<br>
planes on the market. Ten Plus planes<br>
back then were as good<br>
as the Yang/Oxai planes of today, and<br>
relative cost was<br>
about the same. Since being on my own,<br>
I’ve had more<br>
average planes, price point at least.<br>
Sponsorship allows me<br>
to outfit my planes with what I<br>
consider some of the best<br>
equipment, but even then I don’t<br>
bling out my planes at<br>
every turn. <br>
> <br>
><br>
Example, Acuity set-up from the 2017<br>
Nats in Blytheville,<br>
AR: <br>
> Plane: AJ Acuity $949 <br>
> Motor: AJ 5230-20P $260 <br>
> OS/Futaba ESC: $300 I think <br>
> Battery: ThunderPower 6000’s<br>
$220 <br>
> Servos: Futaba SBUS, 173’s,<br>
171’s<br>
& 175 $950 now 🤭 <br>
> Receiver:<br>
Futaba 7006 $100 now <br>
> Falcon Spinner<br>
and Prop: $160 <br>
> Total works out to<br>
about: $2939 <br>
> <br>
><br>
Most hardware is stock from the kit.<br>
Linkages, tail wheel<br>
assembly, sticky velcro hook side,<br>
axles, wheels. I changed<br>
the cowl screws, motor mounting screws<br>
(shorter) and velcro<br>
strap for the battery. <br>
> <br>
> I could have used, and not hurt<br>
my<br>
performance any, this equipment: <br>
><br>
Futaba 9650’s, 9151’s & 9155<br>
($430) and saved -$520<br>
<br>
> Futaba 617 receiver ($94) and<br>
saved<br>
-$6 <br>
> Castle 80a ESC ($145) and saved<br>
-$155 <br>
> Gator spinner ($18) and saved<br>
-$42 <br>
> APC prop ($44) and saved -$56 <br>
> Power Unlimited 5800’s ($186)<br>
and saved<br>
$34 <br>
> Shulman Aviation 6v regulator<br>
($20) +$20 <br>
> Total saved: $658 <br>
> <br>
> So my Acuity set-up<br>
could be done for just about $2144.<br>
This is assuming you<br>
have NONE of the stuff to put in a 2m<br>
sized plane. <br>
> <br>
> Now my Epic set-up<br>
from the 2018 Muncie, IN Nats is a<br>
different price point:<br>
<br>
> CA Model Epic $2780 (Evo price,<br>
I<br>
think Epic + was less) <br>
> Brenner Contra:<br>
$1000 last year <br>
> Kontronic Motor: $500<br>
<br>
> Add $100 for a 2nd Falcon prop <br>
> Subtract $60 for the Falcon<br>
spinner <br>
> Futaba servos/receiver,<br>
ThunderPower<br>
batteries and OS/Futaba ESC are the<br>
same prices as Acuity.<br>
<br>
> <br>
> I usually use<br>
2mm carbon rod for pushrods,<br>
Du-Bro/Central Hobbies/F3AU<br>
links, MPI 2.25 wheels. <br>
> <br>
> Total around $6000 <br>
><br>
<br>
> Again, using equipment that’s<br>
not<br>
‘top of the line’, I can save<br>
about $2400. Most of the<br>
difference from the Acuity savings is<br>
swapping the contra<br>
for a Himax set-up. <br>
> <br>
> And the Yang/Oxai you can add<br>
another<br>
$~2500 to the total for a top-shelf<br>
set-up. <br>
> <br>
> All this being said,<br>
the BEST deals for a newbie to pattern<br>
are: <br>
> Any sport/pattern capable plane<br>
they are<br>
comfortable flying. <br>
> Any second hand<br>
pattern plane they can afford. <br>
> A good<br>
friend with a spare plane they will<br>
loan you 😁 <br>
> <br>
> Have a safe Happy New Year to<br>
everyone and<br>
always land wheels down 😉 <br>
> <br>
> Jason <br>
> Jas iP <br>
><br>
<br>
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