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<div>Ken,</div>
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<div>Which wire size ArmSafe are you using?</div>
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<div>Scott A.</div>
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<div dir="auto" style="font-size:85%; color:#575757">Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone</div>
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<div>-------- Original message --------</div>
<div>From: Ken Dunlap via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> </div>
<div>Date: 9/26/18 8:14 PM (GMT-05:00) </div>
<div>To: 'Peter Vogel' <vogel.peter@gmail.com>, 'Vicente Bortone' <vincebrc@gmail.com>, derekemmett@yahoo.com, davel322@comcast.net, General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org>
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<div>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes </div>
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Well, I am going to chime in with my experience. I use the Arm-safe. I have over 1000+ flights on airplanes with this system and it has been bulletproof. I know there are thoughts about single points of failure etc etc. But here's my experience.. I have never
seen an arming system fail, but I have seen countless airplanes go careening off into fences and fields because the pilot forgot to deactivate his/her airplane. I am entirely supportive of an arming rule that requires a hard disconnect of the airplane.</div>
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Cheers,</div>
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Ken</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of davel322--- via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Peter Vogel'; 'General pattern discussion'; 'Vicente Bortone'; derekemmett@yahoo.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes</font>
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@ “part of the problem”</p>
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I regularly fly alone. I am very regimented about assembling and flight prep for every aircraft. I will often decline help from people I don’t know because I don’t know to what extent they will follow instructions.</p>
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When flyers that have not met me see me setting up, and prepping for flight, post-flight I often hear things like – “I was going to head out, but I saw the way you were setting up and had watch the flying”. Very specific regimented routines do get noticed,
and are a very good starting point. But, it is only a starting point because the best routines don’t work unless they are followed 100% of the time – and that is where we humans generally fail – we get complacent don’t stick to our routines. I have seen
several close calls and runaways even with arming plugs because someone failed to follow a routine……not the fault of the arming plug and not something the arming plug could prevent.</p>
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@ anti-spark “reducing” points of failure. Anti-spark circuitry is another component and it can fail. So the potential failure point of carbon build up is exchanged for the potential failure of the anti-spark circuitry. Carbon buildup is easy to spot and
changing plugs should be part of a routine. That said, I have multiple ESCs with Ultra Deans with more than 1000 flights (and substantially more power cycles) and I can not see any difference in data logs between new plugs and plugs with a 1000 flights.
Carbon buildup substantial enough to cause a problem in itself, is likely indicative of other problems.</p>
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Regards,</p>
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Dave</p>
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<b>From:</b> NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Peter Vogel via NSRCA-discussion<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 26, 2018 3:27 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Vicente Bortone <vincebrc@gmail.com>; derekemmett@yahoo.com; NSRCA NSRCA <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes</p>
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To me the big thing is the *convenience* and *expediency* of disarming via an external plug. Many canopies can be fussy about how they go on and off and, at a contest where we try to keep things moving quickly, especially when one plane has just landed and
another is on approach it’s quick and easy for the caller to disarm the plane and carry it into the pits if there is an external device. Without that, and in the hurry-up scenarios it is real easy for an armed plane to get carried into the pits. </p>
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Quite frankly though, it’s not going to happen until the top pilots start setting the example rather than being “part of the problem”. They AREN’T a problem because they fly so much and have a regular caller who knows the routine and quickly disarms the plane,
etc. but they need to set an example for the rest who DON’T have those advantages. I get the “point of failure” concerns, and agree that things like the deans arming plug approach, etc. can introduce those. But an anti-spark external arming bullet, IMHO *reduces*
points of failure by ensuring you get no carbon buildup on any battery/ESC connections. </p>
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Get <a href="https://nam01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2Fo0ukef&data=02%7C01%7C%7C1e70d3ec6cc343b421d608d6240c42c5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636736032406149241&sdata=%2BpcYgZPFu%2FFl78FYZu41O5qALKwQyl3X%2BHDZdmVnGvQ%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" shash="iqpoAZgXzqjdbIA/x+NmkojhMZYkBA3lgfamzVjtZlAMjW078Jb0XHVIv59cbhLx6rAW4INrsZH2bVhvk1l8aaHo0usdVDX5dZst/Z9saopM7ZFYHEUKqUk8pMVrH1+PJgStkQyBm/doyHQLZki1tt2+vSps+PGRfEVMueLHAQk=">
Outlook for iOS</a></p>
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<b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>> on behalf of Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 26, 2018 12:12:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:derekemmett@yahoo.com">derekemmett@yahoo.com</a>; NSRCA NSRCA<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes</span>
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Derek,</p>
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The key is that you saw him doing that. You could have told him. If you didn't want to tell him you just could make aware of all around to watch out. It is basic safety that has been proved in the industry. Any power electric circuit has to have an external
visible disconnect. It is just the basic "Show me rule" We just want to make sure that the gun cannot fire. Of courser there are always exceptions and accidents happen. However, the external arming switch will reduce the chances of accidents for sure. </p>
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Vicente "Vince" Bortone</p>
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On Wed, Sep 26, 2018 at 1:06 PM Derek Emmett via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:</p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"">The method of disarming the plane is only as good as the pilot (external or internal). It is for the pilot to enforce the safety of his plane, otherwise you need a watchdog at every flight line to
really see the action take place. In the later many of us take for granted and expect the pilot to do his job. Sometimes we observe the disarming and sometimes we don't. Perhaps this is where the biggest improvement in safety could take place.
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"">This last weekend's pattern contest, I noticed a pilot take his plane out of the car, put it all together, then start to put flight pack in, with the arming plug still installed!? Point is safety
errors will happen regardless. We are the drivers of the planes, thus we need to be the 100% responsible party of course. I think the biggest improvement we can immediately apply is to individually watch what our buddies are doing, and just be the extra
set of eyes and caution. Lets help each other not make these critical errors.
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"">Best</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"">Derek...</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">On Wednesday, September 26, 2018, 8:47:49 AM PDT, Anthony Romano via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote: </span></p>
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<p style="margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">Both of those incidents were due to pilots not following the statement below. Having an arming plug would not have prevented either incident.</span></p>
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<b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>> on behalf of Patternpilot One via NSRCA-discussion
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 26, 2018 11:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jon Bruml; General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black">
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">Right from the AMA competition guide.</span></p>
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<p style="margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:8.0pt; margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:#26282A; background:yellow">At no time will a model be left unrestrained or unattended while running or with the electric motor power circuit(s) physically
connected unless the model is on the runway.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A"></span></p>
<p style="margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:8.0pt; margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:#26282A; background:yellow">All models that have the capability of Fail Safe in the radio shall have the throttle set to Fail Safe in a way that the motor/engine
comes to a complete stop or a minimum idle if it were to lose signal from the transmitter.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A"></span></p>
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<p style="margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:8.0pt; margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">Scott A.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:8.5pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#575757">Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">-------- Original message --------</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">From: Jon Bruml via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">Date: 9/26/18 11:10 AM (GMT-05:00)
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">To: Joe Lachowski <<a href="mailto:jlachow@hotmail.com" target="_blank">jlachow@hotmail.com</a>>, Vicente Bortone <<a href="mailto:vincebrc@gmail.com" target="_blank">vincebrc@gmail.com</a>>,
General pattern discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">Okay how about the FAi pilot who accidentally advanced his throttle in the pits at a June contest and destroyed the entire back end of an Oxai ?</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">Only by grace was no one injured </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">Jonathan Bruml</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">Techstyles</span></p>
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<b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>> on behalf of Joe Lachowski via NSRCA-discussion
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:07:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Vicente Bortone; General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">So you want to require an arming device based on a sport flyers stupidity.</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">Sent from
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<b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>> on behalf of Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:38:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Vogel, Peter; NSRCA NSRCA<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">This is real experience. About 3-4 years ago I was getting ready to fly with another friend. Both of our planes were already in the pits and we just were talking before starting the
day. A pilot came with an electric plane and parked between us. He left it there and decided that he needs to go and get something. About a minute later his plane came to live suddenly and took us from the pits. It starting to do an small loop and was
coming directly toward us. It was so fast that my friend said "take cover". We were lucky that the plane crashed in front of us and there were no more pilots flying or around. It was so fast that I didn't have time to move an inch and could have hit us easily.
The plane didn't have an arming switch outside so there was no way for us to know if was armed. The owner came and we never were able to figure out what really happened.
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">I think makes sense to put together a formal request that will require external disconnect outside the electric powered planes. It is easy to justify since is already a requirement
of the National Electrical Code and OSHA. Anyone out there wants to put together a draft. I will help to signed since I am a CD. </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">!Gone Flying! </span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">Vicente "Vince" Bortone</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:41 PM Vogel, Peter via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" id="x_m_-7406463814027329068ydp42995e4ayiv6977429010LPlnk28963">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">Rule says you must disarm the plane before bringing into the pits, does not say how. That can mean take off canopy and unplug. I’ve moved to using a Jeti anti-spark bullet in-line
on the red side of the battery-esc connection with the bullet routed to the outside of the plane. Quick, simple, foolproof. Anti-spark prevents carbon buildup on the bullets.
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<b><span style="color:black">From:</span></b><span style="color:black"> NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" id="x_m_-7406463814027329068ydp42995e4ayiv6977429010LPlnk332206">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
on behalf of Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" id="x_m_-7406463814027329068ydp42995e4ayiv6977429010LPlnk218077">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 25, 2018 5:34:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica Neue"; color:#26282A">
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:#333333">Guys, what is the current status of arming devices in NSRCA for you electric airplanes? Does anyone know what the AMA says about arming devices -- I can't find my way around
the new web site yet, and this is the easy way out! lol</span></p>
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<span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:#333333">Thanks,</span></p>
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<em><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif; color:#333333">Phil Spelt, AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member</span></b></em><b><i><span style="font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif; color:#333333"><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif">SPA L-18, Board Member, KCRC Emeritus</span></em><br>
<em><span style="font-family:"Arial Black",sans-serif">Oliver Springs, TN (865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c</span></em></span></i></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:#333333"></span></p>
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