<!DOCTYPE html>
<html><head>
<meta charset="UTF-8">
</head><body><p style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;">I think this has been a great discussion in both the NSRCA and SPA threads. I thank my friend Vic who asked the original question that got us started.</p><p style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br></p><p style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;">Some have compared glow to electric power, as if to suggest that the same things have happened with glow engines.</p><p style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br></p><p style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;">I think there are a couple of major differences between the two: One, as someone already pointed out, if a glow engine is <strong>not idling</strong>, it is known to be "unarmed", both visually and through hearing. The same is <strong>not</strong> true of electric motors -- a switch-bump can start an idle motor instantaneously if it is armed.</p><p style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br></p><p style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;">Two, when power is applied to an electric motor, the prop is immediately at full torque. If it hits some one/thing and stops, it will still turn when the prop is freed from the obstacle. Neither of these is true of a glow engine, which takes a while to spool up, with attendant sound that increases as the engine speeds up; and, when the prop hits something substantial (a leg), that kills the engine, ending the attack. An electric motor will continue trying to bite you until the battery is disconnected or runs down.</p><p style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br></p><p style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;">Well, as Jay says below, we have pretty well massaged this aspect of safety with our airplanes. Thanks to all who have chimed in...</p><p style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; color: #333333;"><br></p><div class="io-ox-signature"><p style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;" class="default-style"><span class="signature-truncate"><span class="signature-truncate"><span class="signature-truncate"><span class="signature-truncate"><span class="signature-truncate"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'; font-size: 12px;"> <strong><em>Phil Spelt, AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member<br>SPA L-18, Board Member, KCRC Emeritus<br>Oliver Springs, TN (865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c</em></strong></span></span></span></span></span></span></p></div><blockquote type="cite">On September 26, 2018 at 5:58 PM Jay Gerber via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org> wrote: <br> <br><div class="ox-8ef2759d8c-WordSection1"><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">Scott A, Everything that needs to be said about electric has been said but your noting the Loss of signal issue reminded me of a very hazardous situation that happened to me many, many years ago when electric was just becoming popular, some might learn from it as follows: </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';"> </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">Switched the Fail Safe program in the transmitter from one plane to another, reset the “loss of signal” throws on all surfaces…and….forgot to “check” the throttle which was reversed for plane #2…all other programming was perfect. </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';"> </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">Landed the plane taxied to the pit area, plane stopped, throttle in “off” position, electric motor was “off”, reaching down to disconnect the battery but…as I leaned down still holding the transmitter and not holding the plane, reached over and…… </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';"> </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">“Turned the Transmitter OFF First” the plane went into full throttle, luckily no one was in front of it, left the ground and headed for the parking lot…lot’s of yelling and no one luckily was hurt and the plane luckily crashed into a pole in the parking area destroying itself…. </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';"> </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">THIS HAPPENED WAY BACK IN THE EARLY DAYS OF ELECTRIC</span><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">…..I then devised my own external arming plug and never had a problem again with uninitiated activated power. </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';"> </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">“If it can happen, it will”…..arming plugs are a help along with having a great respect for the dangerous potential of electric goes a long way toward safe electric flying. </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';">Jay </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';"> </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif';"> </span></p><div><div style="border: none; border-top: solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';"> NSRCA-discussion [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Patternpilot One via NSRCA-discussion<br><strong>Sent:</strong> Wednesday, September 26, 2018 11:29 AM<br><strong>To:</strong> Jon Bruml; General pattern discussion<br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes </span></p></div></div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal">Right from the AMA competition guide.</p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 8.0pt; margin-left: 0in;"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; background: yellow;">At no time will a model be left unrestrained or unattended while running or with the electric motor power circuit(s) physically connected unless the model is on the runway.</span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 8.0pt; margin-left: 0in;"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; background: yellow;">All models that have the capability of Fail Safe in the radio shall have the throttle set to Fail Safe in a way that the motor/engine comes to a complete stop or a minimum idle if it were to lose signal from the transmitter.</span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 8.0pt; margin-left: 0in;"> </p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 8.0pt; margin-left: 0in;">Scott A.</p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"> </p></div><div id="ox-8ef2759d8c-composer_signature"><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; color: #575757;">Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone </span></p></div></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt;"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal">-------- Original message --------</p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal">From: Jon Bruml via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal">Date: 9/26/18 11:10 AM (GMT-05:00)</p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal">To: Joe Lachowski <jlachow@hotmail.com>, Vicente Bortone <vincebrc@gmail.com>, General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org></p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal">Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes</p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><div id="ox-8ef2759d8c-compose-container"><div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal">Okay how about the FAi pilot who accidentally advanced his throttle in the pits at a June contest and destroyed the entire back end of an Oxai ?</p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal">Only by grace was no one injured </p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal">Jonathan Bruml</p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal">Techstyles</p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal">www.techstyles.com</p></div></div></div></div><div class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align: center;"><hr size="2" width="98%" align="center"></div><div id="ox-8ef2759d8c-divRplyFwdMsg"><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><strong><span style="color: black;">From:</span></strong><span style="color: black;"> NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of Joe Lachowski via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br><strong>Sent:</strong> Wednesday, September 26, 2018 8:07:08 AM<br><strong>To:</strong> Vicente Bortone; General pattern discussion<br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes</span></p><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"> </p></div></div><div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal">So you want to require an arming device based on a sport flyers stupidity.</p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"> </p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal">Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"> </p></div><div class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align: center;"><hr size="2" width="98%" align="center"></div><div id="ox-8ef2759d8c-divRplyFwdMsg"><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><strong><span style="color: black;">From:</span></strong><span style="color: black;"> NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org> on behalf of Vicente Bortone via NSRCA-discussion <nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org><br><strong>Sent:</strong> Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:38:30 AM<br><strong>To:</strong> Vogel, Peter; NSRCA NSRCA<br><strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes</span></p><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';"> </span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';">This is real experience. About 3-4 years ago I was getting ready to fly with another friend. Both of our planes were already in the pits and we just were talking before starting the day. A pilot came with an electric plane and parked between us. He left it there and decided that he needs to go and get something. About a minute later his plane came to live suddenly and took us from the pits. It starting to do an small loop and was coming directly toward us. It was so fast that my friend said "take cover". We were lucky that the plane crashed in front of us and there were no more pilots flying or around. It was so fast that I didn't have time to move an inch and could have hit us easily. The plane didn't have an arming switch outside so there was no way for us to know if was armed. The owner came and we never were able to figure out what really happened. </span></p><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';">I think makes sense to put together a formal request that will require external disconnect outside the electric powered planes. It is easy to justify since is already a requirement of the National Electrical Code and OSHA. Anyone out there wants to put together a draft. I will help to signed since I am a CD. </span></p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';">!Gone Flying! </span></p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';"><br clear="all"> </span></p><div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';">Vicente "Vince" Bortone </span></p></div></div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';"> </span></p></div></div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';"> </span></p><div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';">On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:41 PM Vogel, Peter via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote: </span></p></div><blockquote><div><div id="ox-8ef2759d8c-m_-1414834735957943557compose-container"><div><div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';">Rule says you must disarm the plane before bringing into the pits, does not say how. That can mean take off canopy and unplug. I’ve moved to using a Jeti anti-spark bullet in-line on the red side of the battery-esc connection with the bullet routed to the outside of the plane. Quick, simple, foolproof. Anti-spark prevents carbon buildup on the bullets. </span></p></div></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';"> </span></p></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';">Get <a href="https://aka.ms/o0ukef" target="_blank" rel="noopener">Outlook for iOS</a> </span></p></div></div></div><div class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align: center;"><hr size="2" width="98%" align="center"></div><div id="ox-8ef2759d8c-m_-1414834735957943557divRplyFwdMsg"><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><strong><span style="color: black;">From:</span></strong><span style="color: black;"> NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>> on behalf of Phil Spelt via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br><strong>Sent:</strong> Tuesday, September 25, 2018 5:34:02 PM<br><strong>To:</strong> General pattern discussion<br><strong>Subject:</strong> [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Device for electric airplanes</span></p><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';"> </span></p></div></div><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-m-1414834735957943557default-style0"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: #333333;">Guys, what is the current status of arming devices in NSRCA for you electric airplanes? Does anyone know what the AMA says about arming devices -- I can't find my way around the new web site yet, and this is the easy way out! lol </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-m-1414834735957943557default-style0"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: #333333;"> </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-m-1414834735957943557default-style0"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: #333333;">Thanks, </span></p><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-m-1414834735957943557default-style0"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; color: #333333;"> </span></p><div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-m-1414834735957943557default-style0"><em><strong><span style="font-size: 9.0pt; font-family: 'Arial Black','sans-serif'; color: #333333;">Phil Spelt, AMA 1294, Scientific Leader Member</span></strong></em><strong><em><span style="font-size: 9.0pt; font-family: 'Arial Black','sans-serif'; color: #333333;"><br><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black','sans-serif';">SPA L-18, Board Member, KCRC Emeritus</span></em><br><em><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black','sans-serif';">Oliver Springs, TN (865) 435-1476v (865) 604-0541c</span></em></span></em></strong></p></div></div></div><p class="ox-8ef2759d8c-MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12.0pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif';">_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" rel="noopener">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank" rel="noopener">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a> </span></p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><br> <blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________ <br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list <br>NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org <br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</blockquote><br> </body></html>