<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Sadly I don't count. I 'flew' Novice in 81, Sportsman in 85-87, Advanced 88-90 and jumped into F3A on a 'dare' in 90 and haven't looked back. But my goal was always the Worlds/TOC and I couldn't accomplish that without flying F3A. I even flew in the 91 IMAC Nats to try and get into the TOC but didn't know how to read aresti and ended up 2nd because IMAC had Push top Humptys and I didn't know that.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"> I've enjoyed every minute of learning new things along the way:</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">After the 86 Nats (Godfrey 1/4 Scale Laser 200) Ed Izzo spend a day teaching me how to do slow rolls and 4pts. Sadly that day ended with my wing coming off and a crash. But did learn not to use metal screws in blind nuts to hold wings on lol.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Every Tangerine I would learn something new from- Ivan, Dave Patrick, Chris Larkin, Steve Helms, Tony, Chip, Von, Bill, Ron Ellis.... either by direct help from them or watching and studying their flying. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature">When I moved to FL I was lucky enough to have Joe and Ryan as coaches and competitors which drove me to do even better. Only downside to that was when we were flying different classes we knew each other's mistakes before we did them and could put scores down before certain maneuvers if we wanted lol.</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Having flown Pattern for so long now I've realized something. Pattern is a passion, a want. You can't 'make' someone a pattern pilot, they have to be one and not know it yet. Yes pattern makes most of the Worlds best pilots, but you can't take a pilot and make them a pattern pilot. If there isn't a drive to become better, not the best (that's the 2% of us), you'll only have a casual or short term pattern pilot at best. At my age I know my time is probably limited as far as being competitive or even having a chance at winning big events anymore, but my drive to be better and push myself is still there. So I will continue to learn new F patterns that will drain me every day I practice because I am a Pattern pilot š<br><br>Jas iP</div><div><br>On Jul 13, 2017, at 10:26 AM, Anthony Romano via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<p>I started in Sportsman around 1994 and have flown every class.</p>
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<p>Anthony</p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>> on behalf of Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 13, 2017 10:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Joe Lachowski<br>
<b>Cc:</b> General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Apology - And class sequence thoughts</font>
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<div>This would not count pilots who came from IMAC in a high class and started in Masters. I mean someone who started in Sportsman or Intermediate and went through each of the classes and is now flying F3A. So with that I have to change D7 to 1. Matt Kimbro.
Matt Stringer and Kirt Campbell both came from IMAC Unlimited.
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<div>Tony Frackowiak</div>
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<div>On Jul 13, 2017, at 6:17 AM, Joe Lachowski wrote:</div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">For the Northeast, I think the answer for at least the last 10 years is a big fat "0", assuming you mean starting in Sportsman and Intermediate in that timeframe.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
on behalf of Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, July 12, 2017 8:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Atwood, Mark; General pattern discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Apology - And class sequence thoughts</font>
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<div>I have a question for the list. How many pilots in your district in the last 10-15 years have started in Sportsman or Intermediate and are now currently flying in F3A, both P and F? In D7 I believe the answer is 1, maybe 2, but #2 started in Masters.
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<div>Tony Frackowiak</div>
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<div>On Jul 12, 2017, at 5:28 PM, Atwood, Mark via NSRCA-discussion wrote:</div>
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<div>Since I think Iām the one the started this whole Sh#t storm with my original post about the sequences, Iād like to start by apologizing for that. It was not meant to fill everyoneās in-box for the past 2 weeks. It was not meant to put my beloved district
VP on the hot seat, and it most certainly was not disparage the hard work that goes into any sequence creation. So for all that, I truly apologize. </div>
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<div>But that said, I think itās resulted in some great dialog about our sport and our processes, all of which is good for the hobby. So Iād like to voice my opinion (Again?) on a few of the points that Iāve been reading over the past 10,000,000 emails.</div>
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<div><b><font size="4">FAI is not the devil.</font></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> Yes, they seem to have created some crazy sequences of late with F15 and F17, but all in all they are the core behind pattern. ALL of the AMA classes below
F3A are a result of trying to provide moderate stepping stones to get to F3A or to advance as far as you can. Itās been stated before, but F3A is the only sequence that many countries have at all. As a result, FAI introduced the A sequence (Advanced) as
their own stepping stone sequence. In our case, we have AMA Masters, Advanced Intermediate and Sportsman. I personally believe that trying to isolate our advancement sequences from movement in F3A, INCLUDING Masters, is folly. Itās a simple progression.
Sportsman -> Intermediate -> Advanced -> Masters -> F3A. The problem IS the size of the gaps. As F3A progresses in difficulty, we have two choices. Abandon F3A altogether and stagnate our lower classes, or, allow controlled, measured difficulty ācreepā
as itās been called, to try and keep the spacing between those classes balanced. </div>
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<div><b><font size="4">Difficulty creep. Needs to happen, but controlled.</font></b></div>
<div>In a perfect world, we would consider introducing another stepping stone in the form of another class. But the reality is that we donāt have the attendance to support another class. That leaves us with stagnation, or a widening gap between classes. I
prefer the latter. But in a VERY controlled and thought out approach with each gap being not equal to, but slightly larger than the previous gaps. I.e. itās tough to jump to Intermediate, but tougher still to jump to Advanced, and even tougher again to move
to Masters. Itās the only way weāll keep up with the world. Letās face it, doing a great 4pt roll with an modern pattern plane is no where near as difficult as it was with a curareā¦ or a daddy rabbit. We have more power, more agility, faster servos,
more reliable radio connections, and complex computer radios that allow better trimming and flight modes to support all of our various conditions. Hell, we trigger our snap condition with the gimbals.. Some could argue the sequences are all easier than
they used to be given those improvements in technology.</div>
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<div><b><font size="4">Expectations on advancement And why it shouldnāt be forced.</font></b></div>
<div>More than anything, I think we need to do a reset on what to expect when you advance in a class. Itās common for the top guy in Advanced to move up and immediately be competitive in Masters. And if not competitive, at least comfortable. I believe thatās
a bad expectation. Moving to Advanced, and doing your very first 4pt roll in level flight is terrifying. I did them over and over and over again, bailing out of many, LONG before I moved up to Advanced. For one thing, it improved my ability to fly Sportsman
(now Intermediate) as I was learning to use rudder in and out of rolls. But the jump was still huge. And I went from winning every contest in Intermediate, to below middle of the pack in Advanced. I believe thatās as it should be. Hardā¦ and challenging.
And thatās good when itās within reach. But we currently make that tough to test. That exacerbates are stress over difficulty creep. We canāt ātestā the next level in competition without committing. And flying it at your home field, in ideal conditions,
is very different from flying it in competition at a strange field, in possibly crappy winds, with judges watching and no opportunity to comfortably bail out. </div>
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<div>So I support the ability to chose the class you wish to fly without restrictions. Iām far more terrified to fly F17 in a nasty crosswind at a field with a tall tree line, than I am on a dead calm day at the wide open Muncie site. If I was transitioning
between patterns, weather, field layout and my practice schedule would all come into play for which sequence I would want to fly. Something to consider.</div>
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<div><b><font size="4">So my opinion on proposed sequences and the guide.</font></b></div>
<div>Iāll start by saying I like Stuart's Masters pattern. I havenāt gotten into the weeds of K-factors and the entry/exit alignment, but it appears to be a nice flowing sequence that has all the elements Iād expect to see in a challenging Masters pattern.
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<div>But Iām more concerned with the guidelines we follow. Iām an advocate for separating maneuver creation from sequence creation. Itās tough for this cycle, but in the future, itās a great approach that puts separation and some controls in place with regard
to K-Factors for the individual maneuvers and removes any accusation of K manipulation. I also like that our guidelines put some firm (not absolute, but firm) guidelines for each class. MY Opinionā¦ that we shouldnāt force rudder with rolling until
Advanced. By āforcedā I mean the maneuver is a disaster or potential crash without it. Ex: slow roll or 4pt roll on a base line. Thatās NOT to say putting a 2/4 on the upward 45 of a half reverse cuban eight canāt be used in Intermediate to introduce
the concept. In that example, not using rudder makes it look badā¦ but not a train wreck. Itās safe to fly without coordinated rudder. Masters extends all those elements and adds both complexity (8pts, roll reversing, complex positioning, more snaps)
along with significantly increased level of competition. Much like forced rudder rolling in Advanced, I donāt believe we should introduce forced integration with rolling until F3A. But like the Intermediate example of putting a 2/4pt on a 45deg upline,
putting a roll over the top of a loop can be done with just throttle and gravity. It wonāt look great, but itās not a crash. Itās a good way to introduce the concept. </div>
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<div>So lets not run from FAI. Letās not stagnate and isolate ourselves from the world. Lets not be afraid to suck for a few years when we move up to the next class. Letās not force people to STAY up a class, if they discover theyāre just not ready, or
the conditions arenāt suitable. And letās not lose the structure weāve put in place thatās helped us for so long. </div>
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<div>So thatās my $0.02. again.</div>
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<b style="font-size:11pt"><span style="color:rgb(101,100,106); font-family:Lato,sans-serif">MARK </span></b><b style="font-size:11pt"><span style="color:rgb(128,189,1); font-family:Lato,sans-serif">ATWOOD</span></b></div>
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