<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Stuart,<div><br></div><div>#4. The description doesn't seem to make sense. Isn't it an upright entry, PUSH to 45, 2 of 4 roll, PULL to level flight, Full roll from upright to upright, PULL to 45, 2 of 4 roll, push to exit upright? Or am I missing something? Also, it seems to be pushing being a K4. Here are the two closest examples in the Guide.</div><div><br></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Helvetica; "> Triangular loop (base at bottom) with half rolls in all legs, exit inverted (K4)</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Helvetica; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Helvetica; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Helvetica; "> Triangular loop from top (base at bottom) w/ half rolls on 45 degree legs, 2/4-pt roll on</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 10px/normal Helvetica; ">base leg (K5)</div></div><div><br></div><div>It would seem that the maneuver proposed should be a K5. You might want to go with 1/2 rolls on all legs and redo a few things to get the upright/inverted thing going again.</div><div><br></div><div>#6. I had to actually draw this one out to visualize it. Just so I'm sure, you enter inverted and at center push to a 30 degree angle? I like the maneuver but I think it's really a K5 not a 4. The Guide has no 6-sided loop on corner, but a standard 6-sided with just a 2 of 4 on top is a K4.</div><div><br></div><div><div>#12. I still feel that a very good case can be made that this maneuver is a K5, not a K4. </div><div><br></div><div>Both snaps are in turnaround maneuvers. You need a center snap. Guide says: <span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 10px; "> Minimum of two Snap Rolls but no more than three (one may be a turnaround maneuver). </span><div><br></div><div>The only roll reversal is in the 4/8 opposite. You might want to incorporate another in one of the looping maneuvers. Maybe in the Figure Z. Maybe a 3 of 4 with a reverse 3 of 4. Or something less. Maybe just reverse the 2 rolls. But that might bump it to a K5 also.</div></div><div><br></div><div>You have to address the snap issue and in my opinion you have too many K5 maneuvers. Maximum according to the Guide is 4. I think this has to be addressed. I would dump the Double Key and use a K4 from the Guide in it's place as a start.</div><div><br></div><div>Otherwise to me it looks like a better pattern to work with then the current proposal.</div><div><br></div><div>Is there any chance that what is worked out here might actually make it in as an official proposal?</div><div><br></div><div>Tony Frackowiak</div><div><br></div><div> <br><div><div>On Jul 8, 2017, at 9:26 PM, Stuart Chale via NSRCA-discussion wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><p>Thank you, you are correct I swapped the Cuban with a roll to allow better entry to the knife edge roll</p><p>To keep the Cuban an inverted entry and exit we can change the spin to 3 turn spin with an inverted exit (may bump the k?)</p><p>And change the stall turn to 1/2 roll down only.</p><p>
<meta name="ProgId" content="Excel.Sheet">
</p><p>
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Excel 15">
<style>table { }tr { }col { }br { }td { padding: 0px; color: windowtext; font-size: 10pt; font-weight: 400; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Arial; vertical-align: bottom; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; white-space: nowrap; }td td { background: transparent none repeat scroll 0% 0%; border: medium none; }.xl65 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: left; vertical-align: middle; border: medium none; white-space: normal; }.xl66 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: center; vertical-align: middle; white-space: normal; }.xl67 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; vertical-align: middle; white-space: normal; }.xl68 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; vertical-align: middle; background: rgb(204, 255, 204) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; white-space: normal; }.xl69 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: left; vertical-align: middle; border-width: medium 0.5pt; border-style: none solid; border-color: currentcolor windowtext; white-space: normal; }.xl70 { border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; background: rgb(0, 112, 192) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; }.xl71 { font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: left; vertical-align: middle; border-width: medium 0.5pt; border-style: none solid; border-color: currentcolor windowtext; background: red none repeat scroll 0% 0%; white-space: normal; }.xl72 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; background: white none repeat scroll 0% 0%; white-space: normal; }.xl73 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: right; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; background: white none repeat scroll 0% 0%; white-space: normal; }.xl74 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: right; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; background: rgb(0, 176, 240) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; }.xl75 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: right; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; background: rgb(255, 192, 0) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; white-space: normal; }.xl76 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: right; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; background: yellow none repeat scroll 0% 0%; white-space: normal; }.xl77 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: right; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; background: red none repeat scroll 0% 0%; }.xl78 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: right; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; }.xl79 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: right; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; background: rgb(255, 192, 0) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; }.xl80 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: right; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; background: white none repeat scroll 0% 0%; }.xl81 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; vertical-align: middle; border-width: medium 0.5pt; border-style: none solid; border-color: currentcolor windowtext; white-space: normal; }.xl82 { color: white; font-weight: 700; font-style: italic; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: center; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; background: rgb(0, 112, 192) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; white-space: normal; }.xl83 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; white-space: normal; }.xl84 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; background: rgb(204, 255, 204) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; white-space: normal; }.xl85 { color: black; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; vertical-align: middle; border-width: 0.5pt; border-style: solid; border-color: black windowtext; white-space: normal; }.xl86 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: center; vertical-align: middle; background: white none repeat scroll 0% 0%; white-space: normal; }.xl87 { text-align: center; background: rgb(146, 208, 80) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; }.xl88 { text-align: center; }xl89 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: center; vertical-align: middle; border-width: medium 0.5pt; border-style: none solid; border-color: currentcolor windowtext; white-space: normal; }.xl90 { font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: left; vertical-align: middle; border-width: 0.5pt 0.5pt medium; border-style: solid solid none; border-color: windowtext windowtext currentcolor; white-space: normal; }.xl91 { color: rgb(156, 101, 0); font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri,sans-serif; text-align: left; vertical-align: middle; border-width: medium 0.5pt; border-style: none solid; border-color: currentcolor windowtext; background: rgb(255, 235, 156) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; white-space: normal; }.xl92 { font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: left; vertical-align: middle; border-width: medium 0.5pt; border-style: none solid; border-color: currentcolor windowtext; white-space: normal; }.xl93 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: right; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; white-space: normal; }.xl94 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: right; vertical-align: middle; border-width: medium 0.5pt; border-style: none solid; border-color: currentcolor windowtext; background: rgb(0, 176, 240) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; white-space: normal; }.xl95 { font-size: 11pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; text-align: right; vertical-align: middle; border: 0.5pt solid windowtext; background: yellow none repeat scroll 0% 0%; }</style>
<table style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 872pt; position: static; z-index: auto; " width="1161" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
<colgroup><col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:950;width:20pt" width="26"><col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:20370;width:418pt" width="557"><col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:1645;width:34pt" width="45"><col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:19492;width:400pt" width="533"></colgroup>
<tbody>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl72" style="height:48.0pt;width:20pt" height="64" width="26"> </td>
<td class="xl82" style="border-left:none;width:418pt" width="557">Masters proposal</td>
<td class="xl86" style="width:34pt" width="45"> </td>
<td class="xl90" style="width:400pt" width="533"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl72" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" height="64" width="26">
</td>
<td class="xl82" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:418pt" width="557">
Maneuver</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;width:34pt" width="45">KF</td>
<td class="xl91" style="width:400pt" width="533">Notes:</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl73" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" height="64" width="26">
1</td>
<td class="xl83" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:418pt" width="557">
Takeoff (U)</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;width:34pt" width="45">1</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl73" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" height="64" width="26">
2</td>
<td class="xl84" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:418pt" width="557">
Double Immelman with knife edge flight (U)</td>
<td class="xl87" style="border-top:none">5</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533">Pull to 1/2 loop, immediate 1/4 roll, knife edge flight, 1/4 roll same direction, immediate push to 1/2 outside loop, immediate 1/4 roll, knife edge flight, 1/4 roll same direction to level upright exit<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td style="height:48.0pt;width:20pt" align="left" height="64" width="26" valign="top">
<span style="mso-ignore:vglayout;
position:absolute;z-index:1;margin-left:-12px;margin-top:3px;width:236px;
height:210px"><span><olpknaibinkfmdnp.png></span></span><span style="mso-ignore:vglayout2">
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td class="xl73" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" height="64" width="26">
3</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</span></td>
<td class="xl83" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:418pt" width="557">
1/2 square loop on corner with 2/4 pt rolls in 2nd leg (TA)</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;width:34pt" width="45">2</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl93" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" height="64" width="26">
4</td>
<td class="xl84" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:418pt" width="557">
Pyramid loop, 2/4, Full roll, 2/4 (D)</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;width:34pt" width="45">4</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533">Push back to 45 deg down line, 2/4 pt roll, push to level flight, Full roll<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>from inverted, push back to to 45 up line, 2/4 pt roll, push to level upright exit</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl74" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none" height="64">5</td>
<td class="xl83" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:418pt" width="557">
1/2 square outside loop, full snap (+ or -) in vert down line, exit inverted (TA)</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;width:34pt" width="45">3</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533">(inverted exit)</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl73" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" height="64" width="26">
6</td>
<td class="xl84" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:418pt" width="557">
Six sided loop on corner with 1/2 rolls in legs 1, 3, 4, 6, exit inverted (U)</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;width:34pt" width="45">4</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533">Push at center no rolls on vertical legs.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>(inverted exit)</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl75" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" height="64" width="26">
7</td>
<td class="xl83" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:418pt" width="557">
Humpty with options: Push, push, push, 1/2 roll up and a full roll on the downline, exit inverted.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>Option 1/4 roll up 3/4 roll down, exit inverted (TA)</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;width:34pt" width="45">3</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533">(inverted exit)</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl76" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" height="64" width="26">
8</td>
<td class="xl84" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:418pt" width="557">
4/8 opposite from inverted, exit inverted (D)</td>
<td class="xl87" style="border-top:none">5</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533">(inverted exit)</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl77" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none" height="64">9</td>
<td class="xl83" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:418pt" width="557">
Stall turn with 2/2 rolls up and 1/2 roll down, exit upright (TA)</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;width:34pt" width="45">3</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl78" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none" height="64">10</td>
<td class="xl68" style="width:418pt" width="557">Double Key with full roll, 1/2 roll, 1/2 roll, full roll (U)</td>
<td class="xl87" style="border-top:none;border-left:none">5</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533">Pull to a vert up line, full roll, pull back to a 45 deg down line, 1/2 roll, push to a 45 deg up line, 1/2 roll, pull to a vertical downline, full roll, pull to level upright exit</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl94" style="height:48.0pt;width:20pt" height="64" width="26">11</td>
<td class="xl85" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:418pt" width="557">
Half reverse Cuban Eight with a positive snap roll roll on the 45 (TA)</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;width:34pt" width="45">3</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533">exit inverted</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl95" style="height:48.0pt" height="64">12</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;width:418pt" width="557">Knife edge flight with 1 1/4 rolls in and out. (D)</td>
<td class="xl88" style="border-top:none;border-left:none">4</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl79" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none" height="64">13</td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-top:none;width:418pt" width="557">Top Hat, 3/4 roll up and down exit upright (TA)</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:34pt" width="45">2</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl80" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none" height="64">14</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;width:418pt" width="557">Figure Z with 2 consecutive rolls<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>(U)</td>
<td class="xl88" style="border-top:none;border-left:none">4</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl70" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none" align="right" height="64">
15</td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-top:none;width:418pt" width="557">3 turn spin exit inverted (TA)</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:34pt" width="45">2</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl93" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" height="64" width="26">
16</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;width:418pt" width="557">Reverse cuban eight with full rolls from inverted(D)</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:34pt" width="45">4</td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-left:none;width:400pt" width="533"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl71" style="height:48.0pt;width:20pt" height="64" width="26">17</td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-top:none;width:418pt" width="557">Stall turn with half roll<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>down (TA)</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:34pt" width="45">2</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl73" style="height:48.0pt;width:20pt" height="64" width="26">18</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;width:418pt" width="557">Loop with integrated roll in top 180 (U)*</td>
<td class="xl87" style="border-top:none;border-left:none">5</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl73" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" height="64" width="26">
19</td>
<td class="xl67" style="border-top:none;width:418pt" width="557">Landing (U)</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:34pt" width="45">1</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:48.0pt" height="64">
<td class="xl72" style="height:48.0pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" height="64" width="26">
</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;width:418pt" width="557">Total K-factor</td>
<td class="xl86" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:34pt" width="45">62</td>
<td class="xl92" style="width:400pt" width="533">Goal is 60 to 63</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</p><p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/9/2017 12:12 AM, John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:b7652f38-871e-beff-5555-528d6ecb1a75@comcast.net">
Stuart,<br>
I believe the reverse cuban with full rolls should be from upright.<br>
Good luck with this.<br>
John<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br><a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></body></html>