<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>I was on the Sequence Committee with Joe Lachowski and Dave Lockhart. We never had an integrated Loop/Roll in any of our schedules. That started after that when Dale Olstinske became Chairman and was based on a survey where simple integrated loop/roll combos were approved. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature">The first set of schedules had a full roll over the top ninety degrees of the loop. The second set which is the current schedule has a half roll over the top ninety degrees. </div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Verne Koester<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Jul 8, 2017, at 4:52 PM, John Gayer <<a href="mailto:jgghome@comcast.net">jgghome@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
  
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  
  
    Best I can do about the sequence guide history is go back to 2012. I
    believe that was the last cycle that Joe L was Chairman. <br>
    Here is the description of Masters contained in the document. Maybe
    someone else has earlier versions. Seems to imply that masters
    should have easier sequences than FAI. Not seeing that in the
    current sequence or especially the proposed sequence when you
    compare to FAI preliminaries.<br>
    John<br>
    <font color="#000000">8.4 Masters Class Design Criteria (AMA event
      #404)<br>
      8.4.1 Definition<br>
      Masters is the destination class in the progression of AMA R/C
      Precision Aerobatic Classes. Masters is<br>
      designated as event #404 in the AMA Radio Control Aerobatics
      Regulations. Masters is where the<br>
      skills built on in Sportsman through Advanced (401, 402, and 403)
      are now applied. Masters also<br>
      functions as a development class for FAI. As such, it should begin
      to teach some of the simpler loop<br>
      roll combinations.<br>
      The primary purpose of this class is to develop and demonstrate a
      pilot’s proficiency and skills to:<br>
      • Fly straight wind corrected vertical lines with centered
      maneuvers<br>
      • Fly with required geometry and accuracy of the maneuvers<br>
      • Fly accurate angles in all maneuvers<br>
      • Properly position maneuvers (centering and turnaround locations)<br>
      • Perform standard Takeoff and Landing maneuvers<br>
      • Perform combinations of difficult/complex precision maneuvers in
      the box<br>
      • Fly proper entry/exit lines for all maneuvers<br>
      • Fly constant entry/exit radii for all maneuvers<br>
      • Properly position all elements within a maneuver (centering in
      lines)<br>
      • Maintain constant aircraft track parallel to the runway in all
      conditions<br>
      • Perform the sequence gracefully with consistent flow and
      precision</font><br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/8/2017 1:12 PM, Verne Koester via
      NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:49387C5A-3304-41A2-BB54-562A03C969BA@mi.rr.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <div>First, go back and edit page 2 of the Sequence Development
        Guideline to describe all changes made from the original
        document to date. I think the buzzword for that is
        transparency. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>The survey part is easy. Ask the members what type of
        maneuvers they think should be at each level without putting a
        spin or sales pitch into the question and then act accordingly.
         You should also be asking questions about rules proposals the
        NSRCA intends to submit to the AMA Contest Board. Lacking a
        survey to back up the proposal, it doesn't carry any more or
        less weight than any other submitted proposal. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I've known you for a long time and consider you a friend. I
        have no doubt your intentions are good. My decision to quit the
        NSRCA happened before you became President. You just happened to
        walk in as I was walking out. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I'm hearing a lot of dissension out on the Contest trail.
        Most of it centers around the schedules, past and proposed.
        Masters looks like FAI, Advanced looks like Masters, and
        Intermediate is basically just screwed in the process. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>FAI has turned into an elite, professional class that most
        pattern pilots don't and won't have the time or skill to
        participate in. Masters was not categorized as a "stepping
        stone" to FAI when I was on the Sequence Committee, it was a
        destination class. I suspect that's part of the invisible
        adjustments I referenced on page 2 of the Sequence Development
        Guide.</div>
      <div> </div>
      <div>If I were taking the survey, I'd tell you to take the
        integrated rollers and no hesitation reverse rolls out of
        Masters, and recognize that Advanced has more than enough on
        their plate learning to do a slow and 4 point roll, snap and
        spin in their schedule. Reclassifying a Figure M with Quarter
        Rolls as a K4 when it's always been a K5 and then throwing that
        in the mix for someone moving up from Intermediate is just
        outrageous. It was also the final straw that sent me out the
        door. </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Verne Koester<br>
        <br>
        <div>Sent from my iPhone</div>
      </div>
      <div><br>
        On Jul 8, 2017, at 2:18 PM, Joe Walker <<a href="mailto:vellum2@bellsouth.net" moz-do-not-send="true">vellum2@bellsouth.net</a>>
        wrote:<br>
        <br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div>
          <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
            charset=utf-8">
          I completely understand that perspective Verne.  And I value
          that input.
          <div class=""><br class="">
          </div>
          <div class="">That said, part of the reason I decided to jump
            into the fire was to help turn things around.  I personally
            reached out to folks in D2 before throwing my hat into the
            ring and gained a lot of insight on some of the underlying
            concerns and it was a big contributor to me offering to
            change things.  D2 has been doing a lot of work to help
            improve the organization and it’s very much appreciated.  D4
            was not chastised by “the Board”.  We did not leave a
            conversation that was on the table with clear direction on
            how to proceed and folks had different understandings.  We
            are working hard to ensure that doesn’t happen anymore by
            being clear with language and ensure we have all the
            information before making a decision on any topic.  You’ll
            see that topic of clear communication and gathering all the
            information repeated over and over again, the sequence
            proposals bringing it to light once again.  You’ll notice
            that a big part of changing the guide this time is focused
            on clarification of language and terminology, rather than
            changing the intent.  </div>
          <div class=""><br class="">
          </div>
          <div class="">Regarding the survey of members, what would
            bring you back into the organization Verne?  What are the
            right questions do you feel need to be asked?  I’ll never
            have a problem asking for people’s thoughts.  My sole (soul?
            ;-) ) request is to keep the feedback focused on information
            and specifics.  That’s the only way to run an organization,
            right?</div>
          <div class=""><br class="">
          </div>
          <div class="">Joe</div>
          <div class=""><br class="">
            <div>
              <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                <div class="">On Jul 8, 2017, at 1:25 PM, Verne Koester
                  <<a href="mailto:verne@mi.rr.com" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">verne@mi.rr.com</a>>
                  wrote:</div>
                <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                <div class="">
                  <div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;
                    font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
                    normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight:
                    normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start;
                    text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
                    normal; word-spacing: 0px;
                    -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Joe,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">If
                        it appears that I’m skeptical, you’re correct, I
                        am.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">You
                        very nearly lost the NSRCA D4 VP after he was
                        chastised for seeking input from the members he
                        represents before the schedules were officially
                        made public.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">A
                        few years ago, the NSRCA D2 resigned after his
                        input within the Board was routinely ignored
                        because he wasn’t part of the “inner circle”.
                        The NSRCA lost nearly everyone from D2 in the
                        process and they started their own organization
                        called the Northeast Pattern Association. Nobody
                        from the NSRCA even bothered to contact anyone
                        from D2 to find out why. In fairness to you, you
                        weren’t the President at that time.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">There’s
                        been much mention of the Sequence Development
                        Guidelines. Please look at Page 2 of that
                        document. Numerous changes were made to it
                        during the last administration which are
                        properly noted and dated. However, there’s zero
                        mention of what the changes actually were. So
                        basically. It’s change the Sequence Development
                        Guide it to whatever the Sequence Committee
                        decides to do and then point to the guide as
                        justification for what’s proposed. Pretty much
                        turns it into a useless document.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">The
                        time for a survey of NSRCA members is long
                        overdue. Do that, ask the right questions, post
                        the results, and then the request is reasonable.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Verne
                        Koester<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="border-style: solid none none;
                        border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color:
                        rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class="">
                        <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size:
                              10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
                            sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>J [<a href="mailto:vellum2@bellsouth.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                              underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:vellum2@bellsouth.net</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
                            <b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday,
                            July 08, 2017 12:41 PM<br class="">
                            <b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Verne
                            Koester; General pattern discussion<br class="">
                            <b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Vicente
                            Bortone<br class="">
                            <b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
                            [NSRCA-discussion] Proposed masters sequence
                            thoughts<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                      12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Thanks for chiming in Verne. Your
                        perspective is very much appreciated. <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">As a point of clarification, there is
                        much listening going on. The perception that the
                        board is acting devoid of any input is
                        incorrect. The BoD's main responsibility is to
                        ensure compliance. There were some issues that
                        were out of compliance that have since been
                        corrected and the result of the direction was a
                        revised sequence that has now been posted for
                        member comment. We are in that process now and
                        it's our job to filter through those comments
                        and consolidate that information to give back to
                        the sequence committee for revisions. <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">There has been much work in pulling
                        this current proposal together that has included
                        a lot of member input. And that process
                        continues now. Let's all give the process a
                        chance to work. Is that an unreasonable request?<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Best,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Joe Walker,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">NSRCA President<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt;
                        font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                        serif;"><br class="">
                        On Jul 8, 2017, at 11:21 AM, Verne Koester via
                        NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                          underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
                        wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div class="">
                        <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Hi Vicente,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">You just made the case AGAINST
                          adopting the FAI P pattern for Masters. You
                          have all those Masters pilots at your contest
                          and most of contests in your District. If they
                          wanted to fly FAI, they already would be
                          flying it. The last time the NSRCA actually
                          surveyed its members, Masters pilots
                          overwhelmingly rejected Masters adopting the
                          FAI P pattern. They also agreed by a slim
                          majority to try a few simple integrated loop
                          roll maneuvers. That doesn't seem to matter
                          anymore either. As a member of the AMA Contest
                          Board, it's my job to LISTEN to what the
                          people in my AMA District are saying and then
                          vote on Rules Proposals. What I'm hearing
                          locally at contests is that members aren't
                          happy about the schedules, difficulty creep,
                          and the growing gaps between the classes. The
                          NSRCA needs to listen to what it's members are
                          saying, not just the few that sit on the
                          board. <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                          12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Verne Koester<br class="">
                          <br class="">
                          Sent from my iPhone<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                      </div>
                      <div class="">
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
                          12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                          Roman', serif;"><br class="">
                        </p>
                        On Jul 8, 2017, at 9:08 AM, Vicente Bortone via
                        NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                          underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
                        wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                      <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom:
                        5pt;" class="" type="cite">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="">
                            <div class="">
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class="">Hi Jon,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                            </div>
                            <div class="">
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                            </div>
                            <div class="">
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class="">The reason to
                                adopt P Pattern is to make easier to
                                split groups between masters and fai in
                                local contest.  It makes easier to flip
                                flop between both.  This weekend we have
                                the Cedar Rapids contest.  We have about
                                6-8 masters no FAI and one Advanced.  
                                We got 4 or 5 in club and sportsmans. 
                                Looks like we are going to have judging
                                problems or overloading the guys that
                                know how to judge.  I know  about the
                                Silver class but that is a good solution
                                when we have a lot of pilots in masters
                                and FAI.   That is not the case in most
                                contest around D5 in the last few years.
                                   <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                            </div>
                            <div class="">
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                            </div>
                            <div class="">
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class="">Best,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                            </div>
                            <div class="">
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                            </div>
                            <div class="">
                              <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                                Roman', serif;" class="">Vicente "Vince"
                                Bortone<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                            </div>
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                            <div class="">
                              <div class="">
                                <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman', serif;" class="">On Fri,
                                  Jul 7, 2017 at 10:47 PM Jon Lowe via
                                  NSRCA-discussion <<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: purple;
                                    text-decoration: underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>>
                                  wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                              </div>
                              <blockquote style="border-style: none none
                                none solid; border-left-width: 1pt;
                                border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
                                padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left:
                                4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class="" type="cite">
                                <div class="">
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">This email to the list
                                        is derived from one I sent Joe
                                        Walker. I think it bears some
                                        thought.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">We still don't have a
                                        timeline for approval of new
                                        sequences by the membership as
                                        required by AMA rules. We also
                                        don't know how long we have for
                                        making comments to the proposed
                                        sequences.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Given the comments so
                                        far on Masters, there is still a
                                        long way to go. I agree with
                                        Tony F. If the intent is to
                                        drive people from masters, this
                                        is the sequence to do it.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Some people have
                                        compared the new Masters
                                        sequence to what IMAC
                                        does.Trying to compare pattern
                                        to IMAC is apples and oranges.
                                        IMAC doesn't have to center,
                                        match radii, match line lengths,
                                        fly in a box, maintain 150
                                        meters or have an emphasis on
                                        smoothness and gracefulness.
                                        Heck, they don't even have to
                                        land their own aircraft. Their
                                        emphasis is on snaps, via the 1
                                        point per 5 degree rule, if I
                                        understand their rules. Witness
                                        what happened when top IMAC
                                        fliers came over to pattern for
                                        a couple of years thinking they
                                        would make the team. They left
                                        with their tails between their
                                        legs. So saying we should do
                                        something because IMAC does is
                                        not a valid argument. Different
                                        skill set and emphasis.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">I was ok with a simple
                                        roller that was safe when it was
                                        first proposed. There was a howl
                                        when we did it that it would
                                        open Pandora's box, and
                                        unfortunately, it appears it
                                        did. I don't believe anyone at
                                        the time contemplated there
                                        being more than one per
                                        sequence. And with the
                                        infatuation with knife edge
                                        manuevers, we are making the
                                        transition from advanced way too
                                        difficult. We do NOTHING in the
                                        lower classes that prepares them
                                        for what they now face in
                                        Masters. We had that right about
                                        right two sequences ago, and now
                                        we screwed it up. Now we are
                                        even throwing in instantaneous
                                        transition between roll
                                        directions. So a new Masters
                                        pilot faces two rollers, three
                                        complex knife edge maneuvers,
                                         and instant roll direction
                                        changes. Why would anyone want
                                        to move up? Heck, if I was still
                                        in advanced, I wouldn't want to.
                                        From what I've seen this year in
                                        advanced flying, that pattern is
                                        very difficult to fly well, but
                                        it still doesn't have the
                                        building blocks for the current
                                        or proposed masters sequences.
                                        Have we abandoned the building
                                        block approach, and preparing
                                        the Masters pattern accordingly?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">I also don't understand
                                        the tendency to completely
                                        ignore the maneuvers in the
                                        guide. They are there for a
                                        reason. Seems to be a tendency
                                        to incorporate FAI maneuvers and
                                        ignore the building block
                                        concept which the guide
                                        maneuvers provide. I'd suggest
                                        that the development guide
                                        restrict the introduction of
                                        new, non-guide maneuvers to no
                                        more than two per sequence,
                                        certainly not the majority of
                                        maneuvers as in the proposed
                                        sequence. There is zero reason
                                        to make Masters just like FAI.
                                        FAI already exists, go fly it if
                                        you want.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Personally, I think the
                                        instant roll direction changes
                                        are ugly and hard to judge in
                                        FAI. What's the point of putting
                                        them in Masters?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">I applaud the decision
                                        to get rid of the Masters F
                                        sequence. It was an answer to a
                                        question no one asked.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10.5pt;
                                        font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                    font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                    New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div style="margin: 0in 0in
                                      0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
                                      font-family: 'Times New Roman',
                                      serif;" class="">Jon<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                                <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                                  font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
                                  New Roman', serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">
                                  NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br class="">
                                  <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" style="color:
                                    purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br class="">
                                  <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" target="_blank" style="color:
                                    purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                              </blockquote>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div class="">
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman', serif;" class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                          </div>
                          <div class="">
                            <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                              font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                              Roman', serif;" class="">Vicente "Vince"
                              Bortone<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom:
                        5pt;" class="" type="cite">
                        <div class="">
                          <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
                            font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
                            Roman', serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">
                            NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br class="">
                            <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                              underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br class="">
                            <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                              underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <div class="">
                      <div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
                        12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">
                        NSRCA-discussion mailing list<br class="">
                        <a href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                          underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a><br class="">
                        <a href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion" style="color: purple; text-decoration:
                          underline;" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            <br class="">
          </div>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion">http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</a></pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  

</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><NSRCA_Pattern_Sequence_Development_Procedure.pdf></div></blockquote></body></html>