<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I disagree with doing the 2 1/2 turn spin downwind. <div><br></div><div>Tony Frackowiak</div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 7, 2017, at 2:58 PM, John Gayer via NSRCA-discussion wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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Taking into account some of the comments and adding a few thoughts
of my own, I came up with the following changes, shown to the right
of the original.<br>
<br>
<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="1323" border="0">
<colgroup><col style="width:20pt" width="26"> <col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:20772;width:426pt" width="568"> <col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:987;width:20pt" width="27"> <col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:2669;
width:55pt" span="2" width="73"> <col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:11264;width:231pt" width="308"> <col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:2377;width:49pt" width="65"> <col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:6692;width:137pt" width="183"> </colgroup><tbody>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl67" style="height:24.95pt;width:20pt" width="26" height="33"> </td>
<td class="xl87" style="border-left:none;width:426pt" width="568">Maneuver</td>
<td class="xl84" style="border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">KF</td>
<td class="xl84" style="border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Exit</td>
<td class="xl85" style="width:55pt" width="73"><br>
</td>
<td class="xl86" style="width:231pt" width="308">Change
maneuver to:</td>
<td class="xl86" style="width:49pt" width="65">New K</td>
<td class="xl86" style="width:137pt" width="183">new exit</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl71" style="height:24.95pt;width:20pt" width="26" height="33">1</td>
<td class="xl72" style="border-left:none;width:426pt" width="568">Takeoff</td>
<td class="xl73" style="border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">1</td>
<td class="xl74" style="border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl74" style="border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl74" style="border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl74" style="border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl75" style="border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl76" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" width="26" height="33">2</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt" width="568">Double Immelman with Knife Edge Flight inside
1/2 loop then outside1/2loop</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">5</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">U</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl76" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" width="26" height="33">3</td>
<td class="xl69" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt" width="568">1/2 Loop with Integrated 1/2 Roll<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">3</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308">1/2 loop, 1/2 roll in, 1/2 rolls opposite exit</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65">3</td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183">upright</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl76" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" width="26" height="33">4</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none">Triangle Loop
from top, 1/2 rolls on 45's, 1 1/2 snap on top leg<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">5</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">inverted</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">D</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl78" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">5</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>1/2 Square Loop with Snap
Roll in down track<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">4</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308">2 1/2 turn inverted spin</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65">2</td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183">inverted</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl78" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">6</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Six-sided Loop, 2 of 4
Rolls in leg 2, two 1/4 Rolls opposite in leg 4</td>
<td class="xl70" style="border-top:none;border-left:none">4</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">inverted</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">U</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308">Six-sided Loop, 2 of 4 Rolls in leg 2 and 4</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65">4</td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183">inverted</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl76" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" width="26" height="33">7</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none">Humpty Bump with
Roll Options, 2 of 2 Roll up, Full Roll down; or 3/4 Roll up
and down<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">3</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308">Humpty Bump with Roll Options, 1/2 Roll up and
down; or 1/4 Roll up and down</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65">2</td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183">upright</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl76" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" width="26" height="33">8</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt" width="568">Knife Edge Flight with 1 ¼ Roll in and out, -
rolls same direction</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">4</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">inverted</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">D</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl78" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">9</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none">Stall Turn with
two 1/4 Rolls opposite up, 1/2 Roll down<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">3</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">TA</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none">Stall Turn with
two 1/4 Rolls down</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65">2</td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183">upright</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl76" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" width="26" height="33">10</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none">Vertical Cuban 8
with 1/2 Roll, Full Roll<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">4</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Inverted</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">U</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl78" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">11</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none">Trombone with
Roll<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">2</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308">reverse shark snap on 45,1/2 roll down</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65">4</td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183">inverted</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl78" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">12</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Golf Ball with 3/4 Rolls
and Knife Edge Loop<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">4</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">D</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308">Golf Ball with 1/4 Rolls and Knife Edge Loop</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65">4</td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183">inverted</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl79" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" width="26" height="33">13</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Top Hat, 3 of 4 Roll up,
3/4 Roll down<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">2</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308">Guide should be changed to K3<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span></td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl78" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">14</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Figure Z with 4 of 8 Roll
in 45<br>
</td>
<td class="xl70" style="border-top:none;border-left:none">4</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Inverted</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">U</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl79" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" width="26" height="33">15</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Inverted 2-turn Spin (TA)</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">2</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308">1/2 square loop with full roll</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65">2</td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183">upright</td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl76" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" width="26" height="33">16</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt" width="568">Two Slow Rolls opposite, no hesitation</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">4</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">D</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl78" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none" height="33">17</td>
<td style="border-top:none;border-left:none"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Stall turn with half
rolls up and down<br>
</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">2</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">TA</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl76" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" width="26" height="33">18</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt" width="568">Loop with Integrated Roll in top 180</td>
<td class="xl70" style="border-top:none;border-left:none">5</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">Upright</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73">U</td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl76" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" width="26" height="33">19</td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt" width="568">Landing</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">1</td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl76" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" width="26" height="33"> </td>
<td class="xl65" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt" width="568"> </td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27"> </td>
<td class="xl66" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl68" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65"> </td>
<td class="xl77" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
<tr style="mso-height-source:userset;height:24.95pt" height="33">
<td class="xl80" style="height:24.95pt;border-top:none;
width:20pt" width="26" height="33"> </td>
<td class="xl81" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:426pt" width="568">Total K-factor</td>
<td class="xl81" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:20pt" width="27">62</td>
<td class="xl81" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl82" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:55pt" width="73"> </td>
<td class="xl82" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:231pt" width="308"> </td>
<td class="xl82" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:49pt" width="65">60</td>
<td class="xl83" style="border-top:none;border-left:none;width:137pt" width="183"> </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
I tried to keep the flavor and intent of the original. Hopefully
this is a bit easier, addresses the missing room for the slow roll,
the lack of space before the golf ball and eases up a bit on the
fiddly turnaround maneuvers. I removed the 1/2 loop integrated 1/2
roll. The maneuver is not difficult but making it LARGE is. Will try
to fly this tomorrow. Also I believe the guide KFactor for the top
hat is too low. Should be a three.<br>
<br>
John<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/7/2017 10:19 AM, Scott McHarg via
NSRCA-discussion wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CALDH1Ur8jiAWOvAq1K3=uu82v02eErqyMfVm=DrdvX3G0VLYMQ@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif;color:#0000ff">I have to
agree with Tony on the Spin followed by the Slow Rolls. The
Slow Rolls will require room and with a blowing in crosswind
or a decent headwind, this is going to be an issue.
Personally, I'm very pleased with the other class sequences.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><b style="color:rgb(51,51,255)"><font style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif" size="4">Scott A. McHarg</font></b><br>
<div>VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot</div>
<div>Texas A&M University</div>
<div>PPL - ASEL</div>
<div>Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 11:01 AM,
Frackowiak Tony via NSRCA-discussion <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">The Intermediate and
Advanced patterns look OK, but I don't think Intermediate
should be changed as it is only on it's 2nd year.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The Masters pattern is much more difficult then the
current. 14 of the 19 maneuvers have to be written in to
the Guide. The assigned K-Factors are pulled out of thin
air for many of the maneuvers. They are whatever they
needed to be to stay under the K limit.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Look at this pattern as an Advanced flier entering
Masters. You now have two integrated rolling
maneuvers. The full roll over the top 1/2 of a loop is
much more difficult then the 1/2 roll over the top
1/4. Then the turnaround 1/2 loop with 1/2 roll will
be much more difficult as you start low and have to
end up quite high for the next maneuver. It will be a
lengthy, difficult maneuver.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The two maneuvers with snaps are right after each
other. I would think you would want separation between
snap maneuvers. And they will both be inside snaps.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The vertical cuban 8 will be huge demanding lots of
power. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is no chance to correct your box positioning
after the spin. You have to go right in to the
opposite slow rolls which have to start early. And you
will be blown back in to the rolls from the spin.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The trombone is a poor choice in between the
vertical cuban and the golf ball. There will be very
little distance in between the maneuvers. And it will
only be able to be flown one way. No real choice here.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The golf ball will be much more difficult then the
current ke humpty. Since it is starting downwind with
the ke starting on a 45 degree line you will be at ke
for a very long time.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The addition of instant roll reversal will make it
much more difficult for the incoming advanced flier.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As far as I know, you guys did nothing to address
the improper make-up of the Sequence Committee. You
cannot expect a proper Masters pattern without
difficulty creep from a Committee made up of mostly
Masters pilots.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This pattern will keep Advanced fliers from moving
up, which in most cases will have them quitting
pattern.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Since the make-up of the Sequence Committee does
not follow the charter, with very little
representation amongst the classes, this is a top
heavy schedule. From my own personal standpoint, make
Masters as hard as you want to. I have plenty of time
to practice. But it will be a smaller group of Masters
fliers.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tony</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>On Jul 7, 2017, at 8:30 AM, Joe Walker via
NSRCA-discussion wrote:</div>
<br class="m_717610266155300671Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:10px">
<div id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375265"><span id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375362"><font id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375570" size="5">Hey guys! Be sure to go to the
main site now to take a look at the
proposed sequences for Intermediate,
Advanced and Masters. Remember that we
are in the commenting stage and all
feedback is welcome. My only request is
that you be specific in your thoughts so
the feedback can be productive in making
the sequences the best they can be. I
really like them personally and look
forward to diving in and practicing up!</font></span></div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375265"><span><font size="5"><br>
</font></span></div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375265"><span id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375458"><font id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375586" size="5">Best regards,</font></span></div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375265"><span id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375457"><font id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375585" size="5">Joe Walker</font></span></div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375265"><span id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375456"><font id="m_717610266155300671yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1499256931725_375572" size="5">NSRCA President</font></span></div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yahoo_quoted" style="display:block">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:10px">
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr"><font size="2" face="Arial">
On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 10:02 AM,
Whodaddy Whodaddy via NSRCA-discussion
<<a href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</font></div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_717610266155300671y_msg_container">
<div id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395">
<div>
<div>Administrator </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Please remove this email from
the discussion list </div>
<div><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:Whodaddy10@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Whodaddy10@gmail.com</a></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Thx</div>
<div>Gary Courtney</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div>Sent from my iPhone</div>
</div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yqt3411138339" id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yqt86963">
<div><br clear="none">
On Jun 21, 2017, at 8:50 AM, Don
Ramsey via NSRCA-discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yqt3411138339" id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yqt83868">
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395WordSection1">
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">John,</span></div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">NSRCA
had a meeting at the end of
the pilots meeting at last
year’s NATS and all pilots
that were paying attention
knew about it. About 5 of
the contestants stayed for
that meeting. </span></div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Don</span></div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
#b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in">
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">
NSRCA-discussion [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:nsrca-discussion-<wbr>bounces@lists.nsrca.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John
Gayer via
NSRCA-discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday,
June 20, 2017 5:35 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Joe Walker;
Scott McHarg; NSRCA
Mailing List<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] NSRCA
Leadership / New
Sequences - My thoughts
- Long</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal">
</div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Joe,<br clear="none">
Thanks for the reply.<br clear="none">
One suggestion I have is to
reinstitute the physical board
meeting at the Nats or perhaps
a meeting with beer and
whatever. It's a great
opportunity to meet your
fellow board members and
discuss the future of pattern.
Just keep it informal and fun.
The idea is more to form
connections then to discuss
normal board business.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Concerning the list, set up a
local folder for the list and
use a filter to dump into it.
Then you have no additional
inbox clutter and its easy to
tell when there is a hot
topic.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
John</div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal">On
6/20/2017 2:43 PM, Joe
Walker wrote:</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264087">
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>Good
afternoon John,</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>I'm
not certain that the
entirety of the board
subscribes to the
list, but I'm here now
and it is a voluntary
discussion list. It's
also not the only way
to communicate, so if
there is a hot topic
you would like to see
immediate action on,
please send an email
to the person you are
desiring to connect
with. Or better yet,
a phone call. I can
tell you now from
experience that it
sure does fill up your
inbox in a hurry! My
preference would be to
change to a platform
that is a bit more in
line with the rest of
the world, but I'm
certain that will stir
up another thread,
thus contributing more
to the inbox influx,
so I'll save that for
another time ;-). I
can also say
definitively that
engaging every post is
an <b><i>enormous</i></b>
time commitment.
People like to type!</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>I
think there have been
many great suggestions
on a variety of
topics. I'm certainly
on board with several
great ideas and have
been, and will
continue to be an
advocate for
reasonable discussion
with suggestions to
make what we do more
fun for everyone.</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:7.5pt"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>Best,</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1497897629933_264089">
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>Joe
Walker</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:7.5pt">
</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">On Tuesday, June
20, 2017 4:09
PM, John Gayer
via
NSRCA-discussion
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.<wbr>org></a>
wrote:</span><span></span></div>
</div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span> </span></div>
<div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395">
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span>Scott,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I can only ask
why the board
is not
subscribed to
this list?<br clear="none">
That is how
you keep a
finger on the
pulse of the
membership (or
at least the
vocal parts of
it). Not the
only way, of
course.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
There is no
requirement to
respond or
take action on
anything the
board or
committee
members read
here but the
threads exist
to be pursued
and ideas
presented that
may strike a
chord.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Not everything
here has been
negative. Many
positive
suggestions
have been
made. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I'm sure the
board could
issue a waiver
to the two
year rule for
Masters if
they want to.
Or just change
one maneuver,
or two. I have
candidates.
:=) Probably
need to do
that for
Sportsman as
well.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
John</span></div>
<div id="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395yqt28817">
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>On 6/20/2017 7:51 AM, Scott McHarg wrote:</span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>Sorry, I would like to rephrase my last
sentence. I'd
like to blame
auto-correct
but, I don't
think that'll
work in this
case. Sorry
people.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>"Truly, great comments all around but if
it's not being
recognized or
seen by those
that can
change it,
what's the
point?"</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><br clear="all">
</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Scott A.
McHarg</span></b><span></span></div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>Texas A&M University</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>PPL - ASEL</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span> </span></div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 7:54 AM, Scott
McHarg <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:scmcharg@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">scmcharg@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>It's one thing for us to debate a
proposed
sequence that
hasn't even
been approved
by the board
for public
comment that
got out by
accident and
quite another
thing to break
the AMA Rules
stipulating
that we do
change Masters
at least once
every 2
years. I'm
all in favor
of this
discussion but
wouldn't it
make sense
that we make
sure our board
was picking up
what we're
putting down?
Truly, great
comments all
around but if
it's being
ignored by
those that can
change it,
what's the
point?</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><br clear="all">
</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Scott A.
McHarg</span></b><span></span></div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>VSCL / CANVASS U.A.S. Research Pilot</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>Texas A&M University</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>PPL - ASEL</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>Remote Pilot Certified Under FAA Part 107</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span> </span></div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 12:35 AM,
Frackowiak
Tony via
NSRCA-discussion
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca. org</a>>
wrote:</span></div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span>The Sequence Committee and the entire
Sequence
Development
Guide was
established
for the NSRCA
to create the
schedules used
in the AMA
Pattern event.
I believe the
establishment
of that
process was
key in getting
the rules
changed to
where the
NSRCA had
control of the
patterns, not
the AMA R/C
Aerobatics
Contest Board.
Are we
supposed to
just forget
all that
because the
ball was
dropped this
cycle? I think
the better
option since
we can no
longer follow
the
established
schedule is to
not change the
patterns for
this cycle.
What's the
worst that
could happen?
Everyone gets
better at
flying them
and newcomers
to a class get
a break?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I don't
understand
your idea of
forming
another
committee.
Don't we
already have a
Sequence
Committee and
a Rules
Committee?
Seems like
they are there
to do what you
are talking
about. Of
course it also
seems like not
much was done
about
submitting
rules
proposals from
the NSRCA this
cycle. But
maybe I am not
aware of why
that happened.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
All in favor
of eliminating
the weight
rule and
allowing 12S.
But that
really is
another story.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Tony
Frackowiak</span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="m_717610266155300671yiv2783069395MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span><br clear="none">
On Jun 19,
2017, at 9:31
PM, John Gayer
via
NSRCA-discussion
wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> I find it
interesting
that when we
discuss using
sequences
developed and
used
internationally
there is
substantial
resistance and
a lot of not
invented here,
loss of
control, etc.
We can
certainly
overcome the
loss of
control by
keeping a
modification
capability
when we
encounter
something
undesirable in
a sequence we
want to use.
Not invented
here can save
us a lot of
work,<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> On the
other hand,
when we
talking about
rewriting
rules for
using 12S
batteries or
eliminating/reducing
weight
restrictions
for AMA
classes, there
is a hue and
cry that we
have to stay
in lockstep
with FAI or
the sky will
fall.<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> I don't
understand
either
position. We
should take
advantage of
work done
around the
world but not
be bound to
it. If we can
build a better
mousetrap for
less money,
that's great.
If we can't,
then take
advantage of
published and
available work
wherever it
comes from.
P19 is not
terribly
exciting but
it is easier
than either
the current or
the new
Masters
sequence.<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Keeping
that in mind,
I suggest we
accept P19 as
the Masters
schedule for
next year only
on a trial
basis.<br clear="none">
> In the
meantime, a
committee
should be
formed to
formulate a
plan for
future
sequences.
The three
sequence
rotation makes
a lot of sense
to me for
Sportsman and
Intermediate.
Advanced could
go that way
too but
probably
should adapt
to whatever
longterm plan
is adopted for
Masters. I
would suggest
having forms
available at
contest to
survey
contestants
throughout the
year about
their
sequences.<br clear="none">
> At the
end of the
year, the
committee
would publish
recommendations for how to generate sequences for all classes. A
recommendation
I could make
right now is
that the board
ensures the
committee
adheres to the
guidelines and
charter. The
committee
could make
changes to the
documents but
would need
board approval
for those
changes prior
to
implementation
or ask for a
waiver.<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> John</span></div>
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